Another Sub Panel Question

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Old 06-30-18, 04:17 AM
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Another Sub Panel Question

Hey y’all,

I know the sub panel question has been asked a million times here but my circumstances are a little different.

So my fiancée and I just moved into our first new home - a new construction in Arizona. We both just moved here from New York so certain things here are a bit foreign to me, like the lack of basements.

Or the fact that my main panel is OUTSIDE!?! Totally normal here, totally insane to me haha, and of course it’s on the opposite side of my home from the attached 2 car gararge, thankfully it’s only 2100 sq ft.

Anyway in the builder infinite wisdom there is a total of 3 outlets in the gararge - 1 for the water softener - 1 on the ceiling for the gararge door opener, and then another one, the only free one to use - which much to my fiancées surprise is on the same 15amp circuit as our master bathroom located on the other side of the wall (I was using my table saw she was trying to blow dry here hair, pop goes the breaker).

Now I’m a man of many toys, and thus I’ve been ousted to the gararge, I’m a hobbiest - mostly wood working and classic cars when I’m not actually working. My original plan was just to run a few new outlets back to the panel and call it a day but alas I decided a sub panel would be the way to go. Power tools, air compressor, my welder - all very power hungry. Probably the most power hungry is my MIG welder (230v / 180amps) and my compressor (230v twin stage). Note the compressor and the welder will never run at the same time.

On top of the Welder / Compressor I’m looking to add 12 outlets on 3 different 20amp circuits - one being for my gararge fridge where I’m told all my beer belongs.

Now I’m going to need to run conduit from the top of my service panel outside up to the roof line so I can pull the cables through the crawl space and into the gararge.

I’m not in an actual “city” just the county of Maricopa. So if any one has some information about dealing with them I’d appreciate that as well. This is a project I’m totally capable of handling myself - I worked on my own electrical in my New York home and totally rewired the second floor when we did an extension - I’m just unfamiliar with working with Arizona Residental.
 
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Old 06-30-18, 06:09 AM
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to my fiancées surprise is on the same 15amp circuit as our master bathroom located on the other side of the wall
Double code violation. Bathroom receptacles must be twenty amps and only serve the bathroom. Are the other two garage receptacles also on the bath circuit.Best to talk with your inspector. Ultimately all code is local. THE NEC is only a guide.

One more difference, you New Yorkers may say crawl space but this side of the Mississippi crawl space is between the ground and floor if your not on a slab. You are talking about running through the attic. You could run NM-b all the way on a running board across the attic then transition to THWN for the outside run in conduit.. NM-be can't be used in the conduit because it is outside.

If course if you aren't on slab you could run it in the crawl space under the house.

P.S. I think digging a big hole in the ground and building a house over it is weird.
 

Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 06-30-18 at 08:07 AM. Reason: Corrected quote format
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Old 06-30-18, 07:53 AM
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Anyway in the builder infinite wisdom there is a total of 3 outlets in the gararge - 1 for the water softener - 1 on the ceiling for the gararge door opener, and then another one, the only free one to use - which much to my fiancées surprise is on the same 15amp circuit as our master bathroom located on the other side of the wall (I was using my table saw she was trying to blow dry here hair, pop goes the breaker).

Obviously this was never inspected or maybe slipped by the inspector because this is a blatant code violation. The bathroom receptacle circuits must be 20 amp circuits and are not allowed to feed a receptacle in the garage. By the way, ALL garage receptacles must be GFCI protected.


P.S. I think digging a big hole in the ground and building a house over it is weird.

hahahahaha Where better to hide the body??
 
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Old 06-30-18, 08:13 AM
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Now I’m going to need to run conduit from the top of my service panel outside up to the roof line so I can pull the cables through the crawl space and into the gararge.
I would not recommend coming out of the top of an outdoor panel unless you are using a weatherproof hub.
 
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Old 06-30-18, 02:54 PM
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Gotcha, I’ll refer to it as an attic sorry I’m 6’7 so almost anything is a “crawl space”

its a slab home no no crawl space underneath

I’ll come out the bottom of the box - good call

So what gauge wires should I run? And I can use N/M shielded stapled to the beams in the attic and use THHN in the conduit?

also I’m going to double check the panel and see how everything is connected, I’m going to call the builder on Monday to see what kind of shenanigans is going on with the wiring based on what you guys are telling me
 
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Old 06-30-18, 03:13 PM
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I’ll come out the bottom of the box - good call
You can come out of the top if there is a place to connect a hub. Many outdoor/3R panels will have a square blank cover on the top that is made to attach the hub.
 
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Old 06-30-18, 04:18 PM
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Three #6 (2 black, 1 white) and a #10 green ground in the conduit and 6-3 NM-b across the attic. (Never heard of N/M Shielded.) That will give you a 60 amp feed to a 100 amp main lug or main breaker sub panel. You don't need a main breaker panel but a main breaker panel kit which contains an assortment of breakers and may be cheaper than a main lug panel which comes with no breakers. You will also need to buy a ground bar for the panel.
 
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Old 06-30-18, 05:31 PM
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By N/M shielded I just meant cable with the N/M jacket, sorry posting from the phone while trying to get the honey do list done haha.

For the cable in the conduit shouldn’t it be 2 Black / 1 Red / 1 Green?
 
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Old 06-30-18, 08:42 PM
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Individual conductors are used in conduit,.

Two blacks or a black and a red. A white is needed as the neutral.
 
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Old 06-30-18, 11:29 PM
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Cable is two or more wires in a metallic or non metallic sheath. THWN is individual conductors (wires).
 
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