will this work? power from generator into the house.

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Old 07-17-18, 01:00 PM
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Question will this work? power from generator into the house.

I’m looking at this gen by champion, https://www.championpowerequipment.com/?p=1131 . It has 3 options for AC out, all 120 Volts; 1st is 2 - 20 amp outlets (5-20R), and 1 “RV” outlet, 30 amps, 120 Volt, 3 prongs, a hot, a neutral and a ground. (TT-30R). There is a place to attach the unit to a grounding rod, which I will use. There is a Circuit Breaker on the gen for all outlets. None are GFCI.

I’m looking at the outlet from the gen as I would an outlet in my house, hot, neutral & ground.

I plan to run a 10AWG cord from the 30amp outlet into the house and then feed 2 - 20 amp AFCI/GFCI outlets https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...R2-T/300049861. Everything in the house will be run by extension cord.

The cord starts and ends w/ TT-30, a male and female. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0728P221J...v_ov_lig_dp_it . I have seen cords that start with a RV male and end with 15amp household outlets. I have not seen one for my configuration and I also want to avoid opening a window or door for the cord.

I would ideally like to plug the female end into a weathertight box, under the deck (no rain gets in) where the box has a male plug inside. I can’t find such a thing. Next option is to mount a box with female outlet on the house, cut the female end from the cord off and put a male end on the cord. https://amzn.to/2Jt8XfT and https://amzn.to/2JwQfEi . Instead of the box listed here, I could also put this outlet https://amzn.to/2Jv6DVU in a similar type box under the deck. I could use another 30 AMP plug / outlet configuration for the cord into the box on the house but don’t see a reason why I should.

Inside the box I would attach 12 AWG to the outlet receiving the 30 amps and run through conduit into the house into a large junction box with the 20 amp AFCI/GFCI outlets. 4 plugs all together. From there I run 12 AWG extension cords to the items needed. (a couple for frigs and a gas furnace. will need to install a transfer switch - that controls all wire into the furnace - black, white & green) - from either the panel box or from the gen.) I’ve figured out the loads and all ok there.

Questions: What am I missing? The female plug in the box does say it needs to be mounted 24 inches above ground, mine will be about 18 inches. I also think it may say RV use only. But I don’t see a reason not to use it as I’ve planned.

Suggestions? If you note a Code violation, it would be helpful for me to know the basis of the violation.

Thanks all in advance!

Jim
 

Last edited by Jim10888; 07-17-18 at 02:10 PM. Reason: fixing links
  #2  
Old 07-17-18, 01:19 PM
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I didn't read your post in detail. But just by looking at the pic and a quick scan of your post I don't think your plan is good.1st I think it violates several codes. The experts can comment on that. But I can tell you that the unit is way under powered to do what you want.

I have a 5000 watt gas engine generator wired into my home via transfer switch. It's able to power the bear necessities during a power outage. The prime problem is keeping it in running condition. What ever money you're putting into it, get a bigger unit and use a transfer switch properly wired into the home electrical system.
 
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Old 07-17-18, 01:26 PM
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Norm201. Load is not the issue, I've calculated that and will be ok there. (I didn't mention that I'll be running the refrigerators alternately, with the gas furnace and one other small item). I do no intend on running the whole house.

It's the wiring of it all I'm asking for feedback on. Want to see what doesn't meet code, why that is and what other options I have. Thanks for checking out the post.
 
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Old 07-17-18, 02:00 PM
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Tiny Pic can not be used for pictures. Instead insert them in your post: How to add pictures. Note may not work on some phones.
 
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Old 07-17-18, 02:11 PM
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thanks ray2047. i was trying to link to the product page, not insert a pic and a couple of the links didn't work - was trying to use tiny url... fixed those.
 
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Old 07-17-18, 02:23 PM
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Yep, many code violations. First, you cannot use an interconnect cable with male plugs on each end nor can you use a female receptacle as the power inlet on the house. You need what is called an "inlet" connection at the house, specifically a NEMA L5-30 which is a 120 volt, 30 ampere with locking feature. https://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=8716 On the interconnect cable you would use the matching connector. https://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=6801 (I have no connection to this company, only using as a reference.)

Inside the house you MUST have a panel containing circuit breakers or fuses to limit the maximum current to 15 or 20 amperes depending on whether you install NEMA 5-15 or %-20 receptacles to which you would plug in your extension cords. It is not code compliant to connect a source having more than 20 ampere capacity to a general purpose receptacle.

Probably more as well.
 
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Old 07-17-18, 05:50 PM
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Thanks Furd! Yes I wondered about if I needed CB's or not, one of the reasons I posted. I assume that the box I put the CB's in would be considered a sub panel and the green would not be bonded to the box...? Yes?
 
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Old 07-18-18, 02:05 AM
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IF this new CB panel is only powered by the generator then no, it is NOT a "sub" panel. Truth is, the term sub-panel does not even appear in the National Electrical Code.

The purpose of the neutral-to-equipment ground in a service panel is to provide a low impedance (low resistance) path for a fault current to return to the source. This low impedance path allows for a high enough current to immediately trip/blow the overcurrent protective device (circuit breaker or fuse) in the branch circuit thereby removing the power under fault conditions.

I know I used a bunch of terms that you may not be familiar with in that last paragraph. In short, it means that the neutral-ground bond is what allows the electricity to return to the source (the generator) when there is a fault from the "hot" wire to the "ground" wire. The "bond" is not used in a sub-panel because the sub-panel "ground" is bonded to neutral in the service (main) panel via the equipment grounding conductor between the sub and main panels. Making an additional bond in the sub-panel would cause the return (neutral) currents divide between the neutral and equipment grounding conductors. This could be hazardous as it then impresses neutral currents on any metallic case or even on metallic plumbing.

People often think that installing a proper transfer panel or transfer switch is more complicated than running extension cords when the generator is needed. This is only true when running each and every extension cord all the way to the generator. When you want to have a few receptacles in the house that are ONLY connected to the generator you still need to have the proper overcurrent protective devices (fuses or circuit breakers) installed. If ALL of the "generator only" receptacles were wired together on one single circuit with #12 cable then you could have a single interconnect to the generator using one of the NEMA 5-20 receptacles on the generator. Of course that would mean you would be limiting the available current from the generator, which in your case can supply 28 amperes to only 20 amperes.

If you are still reticent about installing a transfer switch and/or transfer panel then the easiest is to buy a small standard size CB panel, probably a two or four circuit 60 ampere model and running the wiring from the generator only receptacles to this new CB panel. The generator inlet connector would be connected to the power supply connections (main lugs) in the new CB panel which would have a placard stating it was powered from the generator only. The receptacles should also be labeled as generator only and it would be best if they were a different color (orange or red is easy to find) to easily distinguish them from general usage receptacles. One more thing is that the main lugs on CB panels often have a minimum size wire that can be used for connection, this may be larger than the #10 coming from the generator inlet connection.

It's your home and you have to do what is most comfortable for you (and your family) but having to move appliance plugs from a normal receptacle to a generator only receptacle and/or running extension cords is a huge hassle to me. Installing the proper transfer panel is a one time deal and makes it far easier to transfer between utility and generator power by merely plugging in the generator and moving a couple of switches.
 
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Old 07-18-18, 05:13 AM
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Just to add: the panel you buy to use as a "sub panel" will likely be a 120/240 panel. To use all the breaker positions you will need to supply power to both legs on the panel. Connecting the incoming hot from the generator to two pigtails. Size the pigtails to at least the incoming wire or if greater minimum size for the panel lugs.
 
 

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