Electric fireplace wiring - bypass on/off switch

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Old 09-25-18, 08:09 AM
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Electric fireplace wiring - bypass on/off switch

I have an Electraflame fireplace (~15 years old) that will default to an off state when power is restored after it is unplugged. I'd like to bypass whatever is telling it to go into an off state when power is removed and then restored at the outlet.
I've attached a couple images that shows what I'm dealing with. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 09-25-18, 11:22 AM
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That is usually done with a latch circuit. It could be a IC or transistor.

It would be possible to latch it on all the time, however you may loose ability to turn on/off the fireplace with a button or remote.

I cannot tell the circuit from your picture. Will need more detailed picture or scan of both sides of circuit board with all writings on the components readable.
 
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Old 09-25-18, 12:50 PM
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I'm no gambler, but I'd be willing to bet that it's designed that way for safety. Possibly required by NRTL to get a listing.
 
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Old 09-25-18, 01:03 PM
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more pics

I'm sure it is for safety. But this is purely theoretical...for a friend
I'm perfectly fine with losing all remote and on/off button functions of the unit. I took a couple other pics, and there is a better online view of the circuit board here: Link
These are the additional images I was able to take:
 
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Old 09-25-18, 08:43 PM
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Ok..... for your friend.

This looks to be a basic electric wall heater with a fancy remote control and variable speed blower.

That is a basic 120vAC in x 2) 120vAC outputs with remote control.
I severely doubt it could be defaulted to be "on" when in power up. It may be bypassable completely if that's what you want. When powered the burner and fan will both run. The only part I'm not sure of is if there are safety switches/sensors incorporated in that 4 pin switch line.
What are the two things connected to that four pin wiring ?

A picture of the bottom of the board is needed.
 
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Old 09-25-18, 09:15 PM
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Thanks for the responses. Yes I do want the heater and blower on when it is plugged in. I will be controlling the unit using a z-wave smart outlet (turning power on / off at the outlet), and incorporating external temperature sensors to cut power, etc. But for that to happen the unit needs to come on when the outlet provides power (heater and fan).
The four pin thingy? I think you are referring to the wires - 2 from the power switch, and 2 from the remote control sensor. They unplug as a group from the circuit board.
I'm too dumb to figure out how to detach the circuit board. There's 6 rivets and funky rubber/plastic connectors holding it in place preventing me from getting a picture.
Thanks again for the help.


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Old 09-25-18, 09:29 PM
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Look at the control board......
You'll see fan 1 and fan 2.
You'll see heat 1 and heat 2.

Disconnect the fan 1 and heat 1 wires. Check with an ohmmeter to see if they are connected to AC/N.
If not..... check and see if fan 2 and heat 2 are.

What size is that fuse on the board ?

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Old 09-25-18, 09:49 PM
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Thanks PJ. I'm out of town now, but will be home Friday to test this. Much appreciated.
 
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Old 09-25-18, 09:59 PM
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Your pictures are not high enough resolution and not enough pictures to follow the wiring. Also don't have picture of back of the board.

From what I see yellow/tan board is what controls power and also contains RF remote receiver.
Green board appears to be getting power from this yellow board when it turns on.
Cannot tell what it does from the picture because the picture is too small. It might be fake simulated flame controller.

May not be a good idea to bypass the circuit boards if there is any safety circuitry on it. And definitely do not omit fuse that is on the yellow board right now.

Does it have adjustable fan speed and heat level?

I think you are better off getting Z-wave low voltage relay and switch the power button with it.
You can also incorporate arduino for doing some fancy work.
 
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Old 09-26-18, 03:46 AM
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Hmmm, I hadn't considered a Z-wave low voltage relay. If it would work and make things easier I'd try it.
I'm not familiar with them, how does that get wired? Wouldn't the same power state issue apply?
 
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Old 09-26-18, 05:19 AM
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Z-wave relay basically has just terminals for relay output. Basically a switch.
You will have to set the relay as momentary contact relay.

https://www.amazon.com/GoControl-Z-W...ct_top?ie=UTF8


Power state issue will still be there, but will be controlled with Z-wave instead.
One way to solve power state issue would be with arduino and having it remember the last state before power outage. It is possible to make such a circuit without a microcontroller, but arduino is so cheap these days it ends up costing less for small projects.
 
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Old 09-26-18, 12:49 PM
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Good idea Iambition! As long as I can control on / off for the heat element and fan, then mission accomplished.
From a wiring standpoint do I just remove the existing on/off switch and somehow connect the 2 wires going into that switch into this? I'm still in the remedial electrical learning stage. Arduino is definitely something I'll eventually get into. Just gotta find some time to learn it.
 
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Old 09-26-18, 02:33 PM
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do I just remove the existing on/off switch and somehow connect the 2 wires going into that switch into this?
It would be better to just tap the wires in parallel. That way you can use both Z-wave and button on the fire place.

I just don't have full picture of the fireplace circuit to give you exact instruction.
 
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Old 09-28-18, 05:19 PM
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Update:
I tested the board connectors and Heat 2 and Fan 2 are connected to AC/N. I also found a simple wiring diagram online
Here (mine is made in China). The other 2 boards I believe are for a dimmer and flame speed.
I'm not sure what size the fuse is, I can't find any markings on it.
That zwave relay is discontinued and honestly I'm not sure what others would work.
Thanks guys.
 
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Old 09-28-18, 06:41 PM
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The manual you linked confirms my suspicion about what green boards do.
However, it still does not give me any detail about how we can modify the circuit.
Need actual circuit board diagram or detailed picture of it.

Without modifying the circuit, only thing we can tap into is the momentary switch with "I" and "II" marked.
The manual says if you press "I" once it is level 1 and press "I" twice it is level 2 and press "II" turns off.

If that is the case, it may be too advance to control with Z-wave directly.
You will need some additional circuit to control the levels unless whatever that will command your fireplace to turn on needs to be capable of sending multiple pulses as needed.
Also needs second relay to turn it off.

Your best bet will be using arduino here. If you want to just simplify everything and just turn on/off I need actual circuit diagram of the PCB.

Since you found Heat 2 and Fan 2 are neutral, Heat 1 and Fan 1 probably is 120V hot. If that is the case, you could hard wire them to AC cord (with fuse).
Easiest way to add a fuse will be using a in-line fuse holder and just use same fuse off the board.
You can find value of the fuse by removing it from the holder.
 

Last edited by lambition; 09-28-18 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 09-28-18, 07:31 PM
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Ahhh bummer! I guess I'll put it back together until I can learn how to use arduino. Looks like fun, but something that I suspect is not going to be done in a few hours.
Thanks again for all the advice!
 
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Old 09-30-18, 10:54 PM
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Success! I took this advice:
Since you found Heat 2 and Fan 2 are neutral, Heat 1 and Fan 1 probably is 120V hot. If that is the case, you could hard wire them to AC cord (with fuse).
Easiest way to add a fuse will be using a in-line fuse holder and just use same fuse off the board.
You can find value of the fuse by removing it from the holder.
Works like a charm now. Now I can turn it on/off with my zwave outlet, exactly what I wanted. Parts cost? $2.18 for the in-line fuse holder
Thanks!!!!
 
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