Repairing Vandalized Wires

Reply

  #1  
Old 01-20-19, 04:32 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Repairing Vandalized Wires

When this house was purchased, it was a fixer upper, it had been sitting abandoned for awhile. A large portion of the the wiring in the basement ceiling had been cut out, and likely sold to the scrap yard by the local junkies.

It was fixed by replacing the missing sections and splicing them to the existing with wire nuts, and wrapped in electrical tape. They are good solid connections and have been working flawlessly for several years.

However it has come time to sell this house and move on, I fear the splices may be an issue when someone has the house inspected. I was told splices have to be in junction boxes to pass inspection, is this true? If so, is there a way I can enclose the splices in something acceptable without having to open them up one by one, which is what I would have to do to snake them into a typical junction box.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-20-19, 05:09 PM
L
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,441
Received 58 Votes on 53 Posts
I was told splices have to be in junction boxes to pass inspection, is this true?
Yes.
If splices are in accessible area, just undo the splices and put them in the junction box with a blank cover.
If splices are in the wall, you will have to cut the drywall and put junction box or pull new cable all the way.

Another option is using this. However, it may be illegal in some jurisdictions.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Ele...001477%7D%3Aqu
 
  #3  
Old 01-20-19, 05:40 PM
S
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WI/MN
Posts: 19,571
Received 94 Votes on 83 Posts
That's one of the basics of electrical code and something any savvy buyer will notice and complain about. I would start fixing this now or it likely will make it harder to sell the house.
 
  #4  
Old 01-20-19, 06:51 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If splices are in accessible area, just undo the splices and put them in the junction box with a blank cover.
Any chance there's some kind of clamshell junction box out there, that doesn't require wires to be snaked through a hole? That would save me from having to undo about 50-100 splices
 
  #5  
Old 01-20-19, 07:44 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 58,613
Received 1,046 Votes on 970 Posts
50-100 splices ...... You've got a mess on your hands.
Sorry. The splices must be broken open and installed into an electrical junction box.
 
  #6  
Old 01-20-19, 07:47 PM
S
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: WI/MN
Posts: 19,571
Received 94 Votes on 83 Posts
Honestly, if you have that many to do, I would look into running new wire/cable.
 
  #7  
Old 01-20-19, 10:38 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i meant 50-100 total in terms of individual wire nut splices, a single run of 14/3 romex that had a section of it removed took 6 connections to fix, 3 on each end. Maybe a dozen or so actual runs of 14/3(or 12/3) cable were damaged.

Half the basement has finished drywall, running new wire to the box was never an option, a lot of walls/ceilings would have to be ripped open. That's why I chose to do it this way from the start.
 
  #8  
Old 01-21-19, 04:58 AM
J
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: welland ontario
Posts: 7,526
Received 237 Votes on 208 Posts
Junction boxes is the only way. Also you need at least 6 inches of cable from each direction into the box. I hope you have some slack in the cables.
 
  #9  
Old 01-21-19, 05:44 AM
H
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,703
Received 90 Votes on 79 Posts
Originally Posted by suprant
However it has come time to sell this house and move on, I fear the splices may be an issue when someone has the house inspected.
There will three or four issues;
first many states have a "seller disclosure law" which require the seller to tell the buyer about issues like this,
second the buyer will likely do a home inspection and they will find the issue,
third is the mortgage company, which may have an inspection, and
fourth and finally is the local government which sometimes require a safety code inspection before they will issue a certificate of occupancy.

An outlet box with removable sides might be slightly altered to allow it to fit around a pre-existing junction, but might still be flagged as a code violation.
 

Last edited by Hal_S; 01-21-19 at 06:20 AM.
  #10  
Old 01-21-19, 11:09 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 10,640
Received 85 Votes on 75 Posts
"Any chance there's some kind of clamshell junction box out there"


Not a chance! I see a lot of junction boxes and new NM-B cables in your future.
 
  #11  
Old 01-21-19, 12:01 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The slack in the wire will certainly be an issue in some situations down there. I may have to try that box with the removable sides, thank you for the input.

As far as seller disclosure goes, how can they expect the seller to disclose a problem, if they don't consider it to be a problem. They can't expect every seller to be an expert on building codes.

Also I live in a rural area, building codes are not super strict out here.
 
  #12  
Old 01-21-19, 12:47 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,144
Received 84 Votes on 72 Posts
A retrofit junction box is on the market that does not require the splices to be opened. I just can't remember who makes it.
 
  #13  
Old 01-21-19, 03:30 PM
H
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,703
Received 90 Votes on 79 Posts
 
  #14  
Old 01-21-19, 03:54 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Hal you need to try that again. Not sure Google allows linking.
 
  #15  
Old 01-21-19, 04:51 PM
L
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,441
Received 58 Votes on 53 Posts
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18xW...wpdMTk_dB/view

I believe Hal_S was trying to post this image.

I doubt inspector will allow that, although that might just slip through.
Also, I don't think that is any easier than undoing splices in my opinion. You also have to ground metal junction box.
 
Attached Images  
  #16  
Old 01-21-19, 06:03 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You also have to ground metal junction box.
I was under the impression that this is only necessary with metal sheathed cable like bx. I have plastic sheathed cable.
 
  #17  
Old 01-21-19, 06:12 PM
L
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,441
Received 58 Votes on 53 Posts
I was under the impression that this is only necessary with metal sheathed cable like bx
All metal junction box needs to be grounded.
BX or AC cable actually does not need additional grounding of metal junction box since it gets grounded through metal sheathing.
MC cable still does require grounding wire attached to a metal junction box because aluminum sheathing of MC cable does not provide good grounding and therefore it has a green ground conductor.

With NM cable, you have to attach ground wire to the junction box using grounding screw. (Same with MC cable)
 
  #18  
Old 01-21-19, 07:50 PM
H
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,703
Received 90 Votes on 79 Posts
Originally Posted by lambition


I doubt inspector will allow that, although that might just slip through.
Also, I don't think that is any easier than undoing splices in my opinion. You also have to ground metal junction box.
Yah, message got cut off-

I was going to mention seeing a kludge fix with a BX spliced using a clipped box, but that was "barn wiring"... As noted above, given the number of junctions, and the requirement to add a ground wire to each box, it's just as much trouble to do it correctly.
 
  #19  
Old 01-22-19, 09:34 AM
J
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: welland ontario
Posts: 7,526
Received 237 Votes on 208 Posts
If you cut that box to slide the wires in from the side it no longer a listed device. It is an uncertified modification.
 
  #20  
Old 01-22-19, 04:49 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If you cut that box to slide the wires in from the side it no longer a listed device. It is an uncertified modification.
it doesn't look like anything has to be cut, those are removable knockouts, the only mod i see is bending those tabs to get the side off which is easily reversible

the only real issue is me not being able to meet the 6 inch slack rule doing this, which seems like such a petty thing to fail for
 
  #21  
Old 01-22-19, 04:53 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: welland ontario
Posts: 7,526
Received 237 Votes on 208 Posts
The knockout does not go to the edge You would need to cut the last 1/8 strip of metal out.
 
  #22  
Old 01-22-19, 05:21 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,144
Received 84 Votes on 72 Posts
the only real issue is me not being able to meet the 6 inch slack rule doing this, which seems like such a petty thing to fail for
You will understand once you try to splice without enough slack.
 
  #23  
Old 01-23-19, 04:51 AM
Geochurchi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 4,753
Received 67 Votes on 63 Posts
Hi, the more of those boxes you use the more obvious the situation will be, is there anyway you could install a short section of trough and make splices in it, post some pics so we can see what you have.
It won’t be an easy fix!
Geo
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: