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Run 60 amp sub panel 200 ft from 100 amp service breaker box

Run 60 amp sub panel 200 ft from 100 amp service breaker box

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  #1  
Old 02-11-19, 06:57 AM
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Run 60 amp sub panel 200 ft from 100 amp service breaker box

Hello. I am looking into running a 60 amp sub panel 200 feet from either my electric pole breaker box (currently has double pole 100 amp main breaker to 14 by 70 mobile home, and double pole 20 amp breaker to well, and an open slot for one more double pole breaker) OR running a 60 amp sub panel 210 feet from my 100 amp box inside my mobile home ( has one space left for double pole breaker) to my garage . Would have conduit going 2 feet under ground and would be UF direct burial wire at least 2 feet under ground. I'm wondering if this is possible to be up to code. Running that distance is quite a bit of drop off. I'm wondering what gauge wire I'd need. All that I want in the subpanel is 2 separate 20 amp breakers. One for a dedicated 20 amp outlet and one for an light and light switch for now possibly run another light later. I know theyd probaly want ground rod installed at the garage. I'm tight on money and was hoping to do this myself. Just the wire is going to be expensive I can imagine it would have to be some thicker gauge. Any better ideas? Really don't want too much into this just for a outlet and light fixture and definitley can't afford to run a separate service. Can't see myself expanding more than that for such a small garage. I once thought about just having one dedicated 20 amp outlet and that's it, but I can't see it being up to code running that distance. It would have to 've at least 6 gauge wire and I know that thick of wire won't fit on a 20 amp breaker nor a 20 amp outlet so I have to throw that idea in the trash. Any advice? Thanks.
 
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  #2  
Old 02-11-19, 07:50 AM
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For a subpanel in your garage supplied with 60A from the main panel which is 210 feet away the best option is to use 2-2-2-4 Aluminum MHF (Mobile Home Feeder). It is a direct bury cable but must be in conduit where above ground and including inside a building. The #2 Al is rated up to 90A but at 210ft the voltage drop (VD) will limit you to a max load of 60A to have no more than a 3% VD. The 2-2-2-4 MHF will cost you about $1.50-$1.60 a foot. The #2Al will fit in a 60A breaker. I do not suggest UF because of the distance with the cost of copper.
 
  #3  
Old 02-11-19, 08:17 AM
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Thanks for the reply. That sounds pretty good. I will have to check around for best price of that wire. That should save me a buckle.
 
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Old 02-11-19, 08:45 AM
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When looking for MHF do not confuse it with URD. URD usually only carries a USE-2 insulation rating and is not to enter a building. MHF carries a RHH/RHW-2/USE-2 insulation rating allowing it to be installed inside a building because it has fire resistant insulation. If you consider running conduit the 210 ft you don't need direct bury wire and can use Aluminum XHHW-2 in the same sizes. Either way I suggest using conduit no smaller than 1.5". 2" makes pulling the assembled twisted MHF easier.

It helps to know your location - US? State? That can make a difference in what you can do or use.
 
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Old 02-11-19, 09:00 AM
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It would have to 've at least 6 gauge wire and I know that thick of wire won't fit on a 20 amp breaker nor a 20 amp outlet
True but not a problem. You can always use pigtails to reduce the size, #8 copper or #6 aluminum would be adequate with an acceptable voltage drop of only 5% even a full 20 amp load which would be unlikely high for what you describe,'

You can get two 120 volt circuits without using a sub panel by using four wires to run a multiwire circuit, At the garage you would us a cheap ($5-$8) non fused pull-out air conditioner disconnect. The A/C disconnect would serve both as the code required disconnect and a junction box to split the feed into two 12-2 120 volt circuits.
 
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Old 02-11-19, 09:01 AM
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Ya I'd like to stick to direct burial if I can. The calculator online says 2/0 for aluminum wire for 200 feet but not sure is 2-2-2-4 mhf 2/0? I'm in kalkaska mi
 
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Old 02-11-19, 09:14 AM
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For a ~5% voltage drop you only need #8 copper or #6 aluminum. See my post # 5.
 
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Old 02-11-19, 09:14 AM
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Thanks ray for the reply. That's also a great idea. Do you think 6 gauge to 12 gauge pigtails at the breaker and outlet can pass inspection I've never ran anything this far at all.
 
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Old 02-11-19, 09:15 AM
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Some online calculators will lead you down the wrong road. #2/0 and #2 are two different sizes. #2 is smaller than #2/0. The #2 Al is all you need for 200' if your loads are not exceeding 60A.

Don't confuse Ray's post with mine. He talking a 20A multiwire circuit where as I'm talking about a 60A subpanel.

You can also get RHH/RHW-2/USE-2 in individual conductors which is direct bury in aluminum to do as Ray showed and save $$ over using copper UF. The RHH/RHW-2/USE-2 still needs to be in conduit where above ground. You will use Alumiconn lug connectors or Splice/Reducers to connect aluminum to copper.
 

Last edited by pattenp; 02-11-19 at 09:35 AM.
  #10  
Old 02-11-19, 09:35 AM
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These are all good options. Thanks. I'm wondering about just one outlet now that ray said about using pigtails I thought of that too but not sure. 6 g copper pigtails to 12 ga. Copper. I have a small welder that has a 20 amp plug so I'd like to make sure I get all the juice
 
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Old 02-11-19, 09:46 AM
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All I can say is don't cut yourself short. I've seen too many times the bare minimum for power is done and later they wish they'd put in more. If digging a 200' trench I'd lay in wire for at least 50A.

You can put in four #4's of aluminum RHH/RHW-2/USE-2 at about $1.25 a foot and get you 40-50A.
 
  #12  
Old 02-11-19, 10:00 AM
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Right on. I know what you mean. I'm still thinking about what you said as well. I'm just thinking for the next few years I don't think I will. My dryer outlet inside of my trailer is easily accessible. Most of the reason I keep thinking of running electric out there is for my small welder but also use the outlet for a plug in light. I get home late sometimes and it sucks not being able to see when I have to get the snowblower out. I'm gunna eventually have to get a new pole and I'm thinking I might as well upgrade later to a bigger amp service but for now if it's possible a dedicated 20 amp outlet will do. I'm still not sure though as for my area if it's up to code for doing the pigtail thing for 12 ga. To 6 ga. I will have to see but if not you and Ray both have good options other than that an I appreciate it
 
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Old 02-11-19, 10:30 AM
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It would have to 've at least 6 gauge wire and I know that thick of wire won't fit on a 20 amp breaker nor a 20 amp outlet
Under NEC guide lines you can splice in the breaker panel. #12 is okay for a 20 amp breaker so should not be a violation of NEC guidelines but your local inspector is the final authority not the NEC.

Note also neutral and ground will not need to be pigtailed only the hots.

I suggest conduit all the way if you go my route because it will make upgrading if you need to easier,
 
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Old 02-11-19, 12:13 PM
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Just keep in mind just doing 20A using copper #8 UF is about $435 for a 250ft roll. Using #4 Aluminum RHH/RHW-2/USE-2 is about $290 for 1000ft. single conductor roll. Prices are estimated from www.wireandcableyourway.com. The #4 Al will give you the headroom if you need more power for less money. Just saying.....
 
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Old 02-11-19, 01:56 PM
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Agree aluminum is a better choice. That's why I gave both cu and al wire sizes.
 
  #16  
Old 02-11-19, 06:43 PM
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I like the first idea by pattenp.

For a subpanel in your garage supplied with 60A from the main panel which is 210 feet away the best option is to use 2-2-2-4 Aluminum MHF (Mobile Home Feeder).

Also good that pattenp pointed out the difference between MHF and URD

When looking for MHF do not confuse it with URD. URD usually only carries a USE-2 insulation rating and is not to enter a building.
In addition, the 4-wire MHF has 2 hot conductors, 1 neutral conductor and 1 grounding conductor designated by a green stripe, you need all of this. The 4-wire URD is a utility grade product meant for feeding a 3-phase 4-wire service from a utility transformer. It has 3 phase conductors and 1 neutral conductor........and no grounding conductor which you need. I have noticed that HD sells the 4-wire URD product on their website, but I have no reason why. I suspect some people buy it when they should be buying the MHF product.
 
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