Phone and Cat5E - Wiring

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  #1  
Old 07-10-19, 06:32 AM
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Phone and Cat5E - Wiring

Hi Guys -

Wasn't sure where to put this, so if this is not the correct sub-forum, MODS, please feel free to move. My location is southern Wisconsin.

Anyways, really quick back story on my situation. Getting new satellite service installed. At the same time, we had our internet provider turn on our landline phone so our daughter had an emergency phone to use in the event we aren't home. She's nine, and wanted a cell phone like her friends in the case of an "emergency". A landline was our solution.

Anyways, when our landline number became active, we lost all internet connection. We have DSL. Prior to the landline we had no issues. DSL was run to a wireless NETGEAR router thru 4 wire phone line (not CAT5e).

Trying to trouble shoot my issue and to prepare for the satellite install, I pulled some panels off my drop ceiling and and started tracing lines. Wow, it looks like a spider web of cables (old satellite just cut off), spliced phone lines. Its a complete mess.

After doing all that, getting into the phone box outside and doing a little inter-web research, I think I know what the problem is. Bare with me, I know just enough to be dangerous.

1. Standard voice requires a single pair and DSL requires a single pair (or double twisted pair if CAT5E) - CORRECT??

I took a picture of my interface box on the outside of the house (attached). What I see is a single pair of wires feeding the house, with the standard 4-line phone going into the house. This 4-line wire branches off and daisy chains all over the house. I'm amazed it even works.

So, what I think is going on is when the phone company flipped the switch to turn on the phone line, the single pair (blue/white) that WAS being used for DSL became the landline and hence, no internet connection. - CORRECT??

The solution being the phone company tech is going to have to add a section box underneath the first one and hook up a second pair from the wires on the left-hand side - CORRECT??

Looking at the 2nd picture, where the junction box is opened up, there are four spots to put lines in. If I wanted to rewire my phones in the house to eliminate all the daisy chaining and splices, could I hook up four separate lines to the four spots on the box and run those line directly to my phone jacks?

In the same breath, if a second junction box is added below the first for the DLS, I could in theory do the same thing with my CAT5E cable and hard wire network jacks to various rooms in the house.

I found this during my inter-web searching, which I think would help manage my re-wire job...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00332F0BG...v_ov_lig_dp_it

What i'd like to do, is have a single phone line running to a panel, then that branches out to the individual rooms and have the same thing for the CAT5E. A single line that comes in from the outside (versus running multiple lines from the outside).

Does that makes sense (yeah, I know I'm getting long winded). I'm not a network/phone guy, but I'm sure there is an easy way to do this...

Any help is greatly appreciated.
thanks!!
Joe

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  #2  
Old 07-10-19, 07:19 AM
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DSL and voice telephone service can and do run on the same twisted pair. Did you install DSL filters at the phone jacks that your phone handsets are connected to?

ETA: Looking at the module in the NID... did the phone company do any work in there when they added voice service? I'm not familiar with that particular one, but I'm wondering if the purple connection is for DSL, and the orange ones are for voice, meaning there's a built in DSL filter there. If so, your internet would only be available on the yellow/black pair, and voice on the red/green pair.
 

Last edited by SuperSquirrel; 07-10-19 at 07:44 AM.
  #3  
Old 07-10-19, 07:30 AM
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The first step is to verify that both the voice phone and the DSL modem work when directly plugged in to the jack in your network interface box outside (shown in your picture).

Whenever I've run into this situation, the installers "accidentally" unhooked the other company's lines somewhere upstream when they installed the new phone or DSL line.
 
  #4  
Old 07-10-19, 08:38 AM
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Hi Guys -

thanks for the replies... So, if I plug a phone into the jack in the NID, I get a dial tone. I didn't think to plug the router in directly to the same to see if we got internet back.

So, voice and DSL run on the same lines? I.E. only two wires are needed? I thought voice needed two wires and DSL needed its own two wires.

Inside the house, where the router was originally plugs in, if I plug the phone directly into the jack, I get nothing. If I put one of those DSL filters on the jack, and plug the phone into the filter, I get a dial tone. However, if I put the router on the ADSL port of the filter, the router just sits and shows there is no internet connection. I've got one of these in the room that the router plugs into.

Sometimes I think it would be easier to just live in a tent or a cardboard box under the overpass of I-90...
 
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Old 07-10-19, 08:44 AM
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Call customer support. They will walk you through it. Tell them you get dial tone on the jack but the modem doesn't work even with the filter. It worked before so you should be able to get the original jack working despite all the wiring mess you describe.
They can ping the router from their end and tell if it is online. They may have you reset it. Have you tried unplugging it reset it?
 
  #6  
Old 07-10-19, 08:47 AM
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The DSL signal is "piggy-backed" or superimposed on top of the voice signal so only two conductors are needed.

Daisy chaining all telephone jacks was the older method of wiring the telephone jacks. Modern practice is to "home run" a single cable from each jack to a connection block near the Network Interface Device and make all the connections using something like a "66 Block" or a "110 Block" paralleling all the telephone connections and then a single twisted pair going to the NID.

If your Internet works when plugged into the working jack but not when plugged into the proper jack on the filter then more likely as not the problem is in the filter.
 
  #7  
Old 07-10-19, 12:10 PM
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Hi Guys -

I started with CS. They couldn't ping my router, but since nothing changed other than the landline being activated. The end result is having the tech come out. Course its gonna be two weeks before they can get out. So in the meantime, I'm trying to trouble shoot what's going on.

I've reset the router. It doesn't work with or without the filter. I'm going to try plugging directly into the test port on the NID, which I didn't think of (thanks IBPOOKS ) If it works on the outside, then I know the issue is my house line. I'll pick up a new DSL filter, but since it doesn't work when plugged directly into the jack, I don't think that is the problem, but you never know.

I still think it has to be something with the landline being activated. We lost internet the same day the landline number went active. Everything was fine until then.

thanks for the help, its greatly appreciated.
Joe
 
  #8  
Old 07-10-19, 01:50 PM
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I think you are correct. The problem is at the CO (central office). Someone flipped the wrong switch. I would try calling again and ask for second level support if you get no results.
 
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Old 07-11-19, 11:03 AM
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As an FYI while troubleshooting, the filter isn't really required to prove that each works. The filter really just filters out the frequencies used by DSL from the phones, and helps prevent the phones from sending frequencies that are used by the DSL. For reliability and voice quality, you'll want to use filters on all your phone devices, but for testing, they aren't required.
 
  #10  
Old 07-12-19, 08:51 AM
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LOL -

Ok, I guess this post is more a b*tch post than anything. So I hook up the router to the test port in the NID and of course had no DSL. Not surprising. So I called my provider this morning, told them all the trouble-shooting that I did and based on that, my conclusion was the problem was on their end, not in the NID hookup or my house lines.

So the guys says, I'm showing an outage in your area (LOL, I called last night and their system said everything was ok). I reply back... for the past 2 1/2 weeks??? Silence. then a halted "yes". Whatever. He comes back that his system is showing it will be corrected by noon today.

What a frigging scam. I'm gonna be looking for a 2 1/2 week credit on my account. Remember when there was no internet? Life was so much better.
 
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Old 07-12-19, 10:37 AM
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Glad to hear all your troubleshooting paid off!

And don't feel bad... I remember fighting with the telco when there was unbearable static on the line every time it rained. It couldn't possibly be their issue as they have had techs out to check it. Turned out one of the connection boxes on their poles had the cover come off at some point, leaving it wide open to the elements. *eyeroll*
 
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