generator wiring

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-09-19, 08:02 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
generator wiring

I just got a new Honda eb2800 generator first off I know I need a transfer switch thatís coming. As power went out I tried to hook it up without. My panel has a single row of ďsprongsĒ that the break go on. I put a ground rod in and grounded the gen put a 20amp male plug adapter on 12g Romex ran it to my panel pulled the main breaker off. Then I took both wires off my ac unit breaker which is 30amp ran black to the breaker neutral to ground bar with no ground as when I do it trips the gfi on gen and I had power. The problem when I turn the breaker for the refrigerator it trips but if I plug refrigerator in with a cord no problem. But even with all breakers off and refrigerator plugged in by extension cord then plug my romex in trips instantly. Without refrigerator plugged in I can have everything on except 240v appliances on no problem. What am I missing?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-10-19, 10:48 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 53,245
Received 381 Votes on 358 Posts
Welcome to the forums.

Just to confirm.... this an EB2800 not an EB2800i ?
It doesn't have a 240v receptacle.... correct ?
 
  #3  
Old 10-10-19, 03:24 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Eb2800i no 240v plug just 2 120v gfi plugs
 
  #4  
Old 10-10-19, 05:47 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 126
Received 17 Votes on 16 Posts
Apparently your generator has the neutral bonded to ground because you cannot connect the ground wire to the panel without tripping the GFCI. Because the equipment ground conductors are also bonded to neutral inside the panel, connecting the ground creates a parallel path that diverts some of the neutral current to the ground wire. This makes the hot and neutral current on the GFCI different and then it trips.
Apparently the path through your ground rod to the panel's grounding electrode has enough resistance that it doesn't cause the GFCI to trip.

GFCIs can only take so much capacitance to ground on the wiring before they trip because this causes some leakage current to ground. The longer the total amount of wiring, the more capacitance. It''s possible that the refrigerator has enough internal capacitance that when it's added to that from the rest of the wiring, it trips the GFCI. When you used the extension cord for the refrigerator and also connected to the breaker did you connect them both on the same GFCI duplex receptacle, or one on each receptacle? One on each would be better so that you're not adding the leakage currents on the same receptacle. You have no choice on this if you're powering the refrigerator through the breaker panel. You have to go through only one of them because the neutral paths from two duplex receptacles would not be.isolated from eachother.

​​​My recommendation is to remove the neutral to ground bond in the generator, and then attach a label about that on the housing as recommended by manufacturers. Then you should connect the ground wire to the panel for safety reasons.
By the way, are you jumpering both hot sides together of the 120V/240V split phase so all 120V loads are powered that way?
 
  #5  
Old 10-10-19, 07:15 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I was using each receptacle. I like the idea about taking the neutral of the gen cuz if I hook ground and neutral to the panel I wonít work, or even with refrigerator plug in on extension cord and all breakers off it trips instantly when I plug it in. Not sure what u mean about the 250/120 thing my panel only has one buss bar so 240 breakers are just double breakers tie together which I had those off. Thank you Iíll try that
 
  #6  
Old 10-10-19, 11:15 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 53,245
Received 381 Votes on 358 Posts
This is not really an ideal generator for direct house connection.
Ideally you'd want a 120/240 generator.

You need to disconnect the neutral to ground bond inside the generator.

Your panel is 120/240v. Every other breaker is on a different leg. As shown..... breaker 1 and 2 are on the A leg. 3 and 4 are on the B leg. 5 and 6 on the A leg. This alternates all the way down the panel. By using a 120v only generator..... you cannot run any 240v devices and without connecting the A and B bus together..... every other breaker will be dead. Be sure you understand this completely !

1 ---- A ................ 2 ---- A
3 ---- B ------------- 4 ---- B
5 ---- A ------------- 6 ---- A
7 ---- B ------------- 8 ---- B
9 ---- A ------------ 10 ---- A
 
  #7  
Old 10-11-19, 07:07 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I couldnít figure out how to add a pic, but my panel only has one buss bar a single row of breakers so 240 are just a double with a bar or tab connecting 2 breakers together with a wire connected to each side
 
  #8  
Old 10-11-19, 07:15 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
That is far as I can tell my main has two legs I havenít taken to many breakers off to see if but where the breakers contact thereís lil spade connectors that stick out every inch where the breaker plug in donít know if the bars weave in and out so the spades all line up
 
  #9  
Old 10-11-19, 08:32 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
"...I know I need a transfer switch that’s coming. As power went out I tried to hook it up without..."

Why are we discussing how to do this?
 
  #10  
Old 10-11-19, 09:00 AM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 126
Received 17 Votes on 16 Posts
The problems with the GFCI tripping are not related to having a transfer switch and they will still be there when one is installed.
 
  #11  
Old 10-11-19, 10:48 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The question is about backfeeding not GFCI.
 
  #12  
Old 10-11-19, 05:18 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 53,245
Received 381 Votes on 358 Posts
@ patmurphey..... your comments aren't helping. The members primary problem is the GFI breaker on the generator is tripping.

This generator was designed for use on construction sites where everything is running on 120v and needs to be GFI protected. In this instance.... the neutral and ground are bonded before the GFI.

Inside the generator is a jumper that connects the neutral to the frame.
That jumper needs to be removed.
 
  #13  
Old 10-12-19, 09:03 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 96
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
PJmax, yes, he's getting good advice here on how to deal with neutral bonding and GFCI, but he is also asking about backfeeding his panel with 120v generator.
 
  #14  
Old 10-15-19, 10:30 AM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 126
Received 17 Votes on 16 Posts
He will need a generator interlock kit in order to safely backfeed a breaker in a main panel. Or have a transfer switch.

Tying 120V phases A and B together on the generator side of a backfed breaker or transfer switch will energize both panel busses with 120V from the generator. One thing that needs to be considered is whether you have any multiwire branch circuits (MWBCs) that share a common neutral wire and have hot wires on phases A and B. With a MWBC if you power up the hot wires with the same 120V input then the currents in the neutral will add instead of subtracting as they normally do. This has the potential to overload the common neutral wire if you load both sides of the MWBC sufficiently.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: