New 60A Line for Hot Tub

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Old 05-08-20, 02:30 PM
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New 60A Line for Hot Tub

Hi all, I'd like to run a new line for a new hot tub heater I'm putting in. I've never done anything with 220v before so this is my first. I think I can do this without having to bring in an electrician.

The heater device contains two 5.5 kw heaters and requires 220-240v and 50 amps. So I believe I need a twin, single pole 60 amp breaker installed at my panel - actually a 100 amp subpanel with open spots for a breaker.

Years ago we had 6/3 wire run behind our basement wall from the breaker panel area to the outside wall of our basement. It was never actually wired to the panel. My question is, can I still use this wire? I thought I read here I need 4 wires where this one only has 3. The wiring diagram for the heater calls for 3 wires: 2 hots and a ground.





Original thread with more information...... tankless-water-heater-hot-tub-idea.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 05-08-20 at 10:41 PM. Reason: added link
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Old 05-08-20, 05:35 PM
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What type of cable is that. ? A 6-3 cable is 4 conductors. The ground is not counted in the description.
 
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Old 05-09-20, 05:20 AM
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Some heaters do not have any 120 volt components and take just the two hots delivering 240 volts. In that case the white wire in the 6-3 cable would not be connected to anything in the heater. The unused wire should not be cut off or cut short because someone might want to install a different appliance, needing 120 volts, in the future.

For new cable runs, 6-3 for 240 volts is pulled or strung in the same fashion as 14-2 for 120 volts or anything in between.
 
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Old 05-09-20, 07:19 AM
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I see 4 wires in your picture, The ground is between the red and whits wires.

That cable is fine from the sub-panel to the outside wall. On the outside wall, you will either need to install a box or a disconnect for the tub and convert the outside wiring method to PVC conduit. The ground wire to the spa will need to be insulated wire.
 
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Old 05-09-20, 10:01 AM
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Thanks everyone. More detailed pics of the wire are below. Phew, didn't see that ground wire there! Ok great.

On the outside wall, you will either need to install a box or a disconnect for the tub and convert the outside wiring method to PVC conduit. The ground wire to the spa will need to be insulated wire.


So there is a box outside we had planned to use for a spa one day. But it says 50 amps (pic below). So I'll have to upgrade it to 60 amps. Does that count as a disconnect?

That box is about 20' from where I want to install the heater. Can you explain the PVC method and insulated ground? Since the 20' run from the box to the heater will be above ground I figured I'd need to install PVC. Same kind of wiring pictured below for the outside run just inside PVC? Ground too?


This wire is not connect to the panel yet, just sitting next to there waiting.






Box outside. Need to convert this to 60A right?

 
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Old 05-09-20, 10:46 AM
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So there is a box outside we had planned to use for a spa one day. But it says 50 amps (pic below). So I'll have to upgrade it to 60 amps. Does that count as a disconnect?
Yes, that counts as a disconnect. All spas I have wired required 120/240v (two hots, one neutral, one ground) 50 amps or less. If your spa says it is 50amp you are likely OK. On the good side, you have 6/3 cable so if needed you can go up to a 60 amp breaker in the panel and spa disconnect.

Can you explain the PVC method and insulated ground?
PVC electrical conduit (gray) can be installed above or below ground. You install the conduit first and then pull/push THHN/THWN individual conductors. You will need 3 #6 wires, unless your spa is 240v only then you need just two, plus 1 #10 green ground.
 
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Old 05-10-20, 04:13 PM
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Hi all, I'd like to run a new line for a new hot tub heater I'm putting in.
If this new line is for a new heater, how are you powering the hot tub pumps and controls?
 
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Old 05-10-20, 05:50 PM
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If this new line is for a new heater, how are you powering the hot tub pumps and controls?
The spa has a pump already for the jets. This is just the heater.

Yes, that counts as a disconnect. All spas I have wired required 120/240v (two hots, one neutral, one ground) 50 amps or less. If your spa says it is 50amp you are likely OK. On the good side, you have 6/3 cable so if needed you can go up to a 60 amp breaker in the panel and spa disconnect.
Awesome. So the mfr says the heater consumes 54 amps and recommends a 60 amp breaker. Here's a snippet from the manual.




PVC electrical conduit (gray) can be installed above or below ground. You install the conduit first and then pull/push THHN/THWN individual conductors. You will need 3 #6 wires, unless your spa is 240v only then you need just two, plus 1 #10 green ground.
Ok this is really helpful and I think I get it. So here's what my plan is, tell me how it sounds:

1) Install new breaker at panel. My panel is an Eaton type BR. So I 'think' this breaker would be right?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-Type-...reaker/1114115

2) then connect the wiring I've pictured above from the new breaker to the disconnect box outside. I need to install a 60amp GFCI there right? Something like this -- (btw why is this so expensive going from a normal breaker to one with GFCI?)

https://www.simplybreakers.com/produ...BoCmnUQAvD_BwE

3) I dont know if it will fit into my existing outside box (pictured above). If not I'd have to get one of these (looks like they're built/listed for a certain number of amps so thinking my current 50 amp box wont suffice.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-60-...Center/1098121

4) From the outside box run 20' of wiring to where the heater will be installed. Sounds like I would buy individual runs of 6 gauge wire instead of it wrapped into one? So I'd need one 20' run of black and one run of red. And then a 20' run of green 10 gauge wire. Something like this?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-S...e-Foot/3129547

6) the outside wiring needs to be housed in PVC.

7) I would just connect this 20' run directly to the heater as shown in the diagram above (meaning I wouldnt need another box to house the connection, or would I?)

How close did I get it?


 
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Old 05-11-20, 09:09 AM
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The 2-pole 60 amp Siemens GFCI breaker you linked to cannot be installed in the Cutler-Hammer disconnect box pictured. Typically a complete spa panel with GFCI breaker is less expensive than just buying a 60 amp GFCI breaker. I am no GE fan, but take a look at this one.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Midwest-...260P/100567181


The spa has a pump already for the jets.
You never said how the pump and controls are powered. Is there an existing GFCI protected circuit to the tub for pump and controls?
 
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Old 05-11-20, 09:44 AM
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I am no GE fan
I have that exact box and this weekend found that the breaker had tripped and would not reset, this is the second time I've gone through this in the past 4 years. Last time it was a bad breaker, I need to find the post to remember how to check the breaker!
 
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Old 05-11-20, 10:25 AM
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The 2-pole 60 amp Siemens GFCI breaker you linked to cannot be installed in the Cutler-Hammer disconnect box pictured. Typically a complete spa panel with GFCI breaker is less expensive than just buying a 60 amp GFCI breaker. I am no GE fan, but take a look at this one.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Midwest-...260P/100567181
Ok makes alot more sense.


You never said how the pump and controls are powered. Is there an existing GFCI protected circuit to the tub for pump and controls?
Yes, The spa has a built in control panel for the pump and a small heater that is GFCI protected.

I have that exact box and this weekend found that the breaker had tripped and would not reset, this is the second time I've gone through this in the past 4 years. Last time it was a bad breaker, I need to find the post to remember how to check the breaker!
Ok, good to know. Doesnt sound very reliable then. Will see what else I can find. Are there places you guys shop online to get quality products? Actually I noticed a local electrician store nearby yesterday so may try that.
 
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Old 05-12-20, 08:11 AM
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I need to find the post to remember how to check the breaker!
No need to find the old post. Just disconnect the Load wires from the GFCI breaker and if it still doesn't reset the GFCI breaker is bad. If it will reset the problem is downstream of the GFCI breaker.
 
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Old 05-12-20, 08:24 AM
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Ok, good to know. Doesnt sound very reliable then. Will see what else I can find. Are there places you guys shop online to get quality products?
Like I said, I am not a GE fan, but have used a few Midwest spa panels in the past mostly because they were readily available and priced right. Typically most Pros buy from local supply houses. Ideally there are several supply houses in a given area to choose from depending on the brand of the equipment you are needing. Everyone usually has a favorite house they like dealing with.

60 amp spa panels are a bit of an oddity as most spas require protection at 50 amps, but a few do require a full 60 amps. Here is a Cutler-Hammer spa panel with lifetime warranty on the box and the GFCI breaker you might be interested in.

https://www.menards.com/main/electri...4429552901.htm
 
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Old 05-12-20, 08:54 AM
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Ok. I just happened to notice an electric supply store yesterday (Denney - here in PA). Funny never noticed it until now that this project was on my mind. I think I'll take a drive over there and see what they have. Good to know about the 60 amp panels. I've been finding that. I wonder if the 50am panel I have in there now is still reliable. Installed 15 years ago but never used. I would consider downgrading my heater (its oversized as it is) to a 30 amp model if I could use the existing 50 amp box and save some cash.

Anyway will visit the supply store and see what they have.

PS - CasualJoe I think your post right above was meant for a different thread :-) Helping so many people will do that I guess.
 
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Old 05-12-20, 11:06 AM
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"PS - CasualJoe I think your post right above was meant for a different thread :-) Helping so many people will do that I guess."
I think he was replying to post #10.
 
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Old 06-07-20, 08:15 AM
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Hi everyone. I've been working hard on this install and almost there. A few modifications in the plan. Have been taking pictures and will post the final design. However I ran into a something I'm not sure about. In purchased a new pump to push the water through the heater. I expected it to come with a plug. Instead it needs to be "field wired" which I thinkmeans hard wired directly to the pump. I would much rather have a plug from the pump into a gfic receptacle.

Do you see any problems with making an appropriate sized wire and plug for this pump? Or must I hard wire?

https://poolsupplyworld.com/gecko-aq...mp/301639.html


 
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Old 06-07-20, 08:30 AM
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There is no issue installing a cord and plug for the pump.
 
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Old 06-07-20, 06:40 PM
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Thanks Tolyn!! Progress coming along. Hope to finish in the next day or two. Will post pictures.
 
 

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