Replacing kitchen light with wafer leds

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Old 06-04-20, 05:57 PM
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Replacing kitchen light with wafer leds

I have the following setup in our kitchen: typical switched ceiling box for light in the center of the room and another light over the sink with it's own switch. I had undercabinet lighting installed by an electrician who was in the house doing some other work and they are tied into the over sink light/switch. I was able to locate the wiring as such:
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There isn't anything overly dramatic here except that when I turn off the breaker marked kitchen lights half the house goes dark. It seems there was a shortage of wire or breakers when installed?

Anyway, I would like to eliminate the center light fixture and install 4-6 (TBD) wafer leds around the room instead. My only concern is how to wire everything so it works as it does now feeding where it needs to etc. I numbered the new light locations so I might get an idea where to start with the 14-3 wire and then make sure that the other 14-2 wires are still feeding what they are now feeding so everything is powered after this update. Thanks
 
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Old 06-05-20, 04:09 AM
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Just a comment.

It seems there was a shortage of wire or breakers when installed?
That does not make any sense. Codes must be met and would not allow large portions of a home to be circuited from just one breaker.

I would like to see inside the circuit box and notice how many lines and breakers are installed.
 
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Old 06-05-20, 07:07 AM
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It is not uncommon for a single lighting circuit to feed multiple rooms. Especially in older, smaller houses. Your breaker is probably just not marked correctly stating it is kitchen only.

Your existing light junction box is feeding power to other junction boxes as well. There is no easy way to eliminate that junction box without running new cables to at least 3 junction boxes. If you have an attic above, you can put a junction box in the attic. Otherwise, you have to keep the junction box or install another light in that location. You can cover it with blank cover and paint over to make it less visible.
 
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Old 06-05-20, 07:51 AM
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Hi, do you have access to the switch from above or below? Would it possibly get a cable from the switch to 1 of the new fixtures and connect the rest from there, also how about adding 1 more fixture to where the existing ceiling light is that way there would be no need for a blank plate.
Geo
 
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Old 06-05-20, 08:02 AM
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Sorry Norm201. I forgot to place an appropriate emoji showing I was being a bit of a smartass with my comment. One, of my many faults, is my overreliance on the use of hyperbole when trying to make a point.
 
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Old 06-05-20, 08:25 AM
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I'm actually working on the bedroom above the kitchen replacing the existing subfloor. As I have it all exposed, I thought it would be a good idea to tackle the install of recessed lights in the kitchen.

Geochurchi, given that, I guess I have access to the switch and wire from above and below. To me, it seems that I could take that 14-3 and go to new fixture one (as you mentioned) and then just daisy chain from there. Yes?

If so, my concern is with the 14-2 supplies coming off the old centered fixture. Can I just take them from new fixture 2 or 3 or whichever one is closest? I guess my question is if those 14-2 wires coming out of the old light box have to come from new fixture 1 if I go there with the 14-3 wire? Lambition's, comment kind of implies the old light junction box has to remain in place. Would this work?
Name:  Kitchen lights (new wiring).jpg
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Also, not too concerned with the hole left with the old fixture. Easy enough to patch.
 

Last edited by edee_em; 06-05-20 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Add pic
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Old 06-05-20, 08:55 AM
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You can reroute cables to new light locations if you will be removing sub floors.
You will need 14-3 between lights 2 and 3. You will use one of the hot wires (usually black) to pass power through to over sink lights and the other for the lights.
However, it is the best to run new cables between receptacle and/or switches. Wafer style lights have very limited space in their junction box.

As long as you keep all splices in accessible junction boxes, it doesn't really matter how you do it.
 
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Old 06-05-20, 12:52 PM
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Hi, itís hard to tell from the pics, but it would seem that the feed comes into the old ceiling fixture, hence the hood fan and sink fixture are fed from that box, how many cables are in that box ? how many cables are in the switch box?
Geo
 
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Old 06-07-20, 02:36 PM
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Sorry for the delay in getting this info to you (the Honey-Do list isn't numbered or prioritized ). The photos in preview seem to be rotated 90 degrees to the left.

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The switch box is a bit garbled so I want to attach some notes:

1 14-2 wire coming into box from bottom left

2 14-3 wires leaving box from top right (one for prep area light and one for eating area light)
Each 14-3 Red wire supplies each of the two separate switches
All Whites (14-2 and 14-3 wires) are joined together
All Blacks (14-2 and 14-3 wires) are joined together
There is a pigtail Black wire from kitchen light switch
 

Last edited by edee_em; 06-07-20 at 02:38 PM. Reason: info re pic orientation
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Old 06-07-20, 04:41 PM
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Hi, so that ceiling box has a 14-3 and 2 14-2’s, if you were to remove the wire nut from the blacks and open that splice you will have the black from the 14-3 hot all the time if you test to neutral (white). 1 14-2 goes to the hood fan , 1 14-2 goes to the sink light, that all being said that box must remain, unless you are prepared to do more rewiring.
Geo
 

Last edited by Geochurchi; 06-07-20 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 06-07-20, 06:16 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply Geochurchi! How involved would rewiring be? If I'm going to do this project, I don't want to have a ceiling fixture if I don't have to. Plus everything is open so running some extra wire shouldn't be an issue.
 
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Old 06-08-20, 04:28 AM
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Hi, itís hard to tell how hard it would be to rewire not being there ,however after looking at your second drawing if you pull a 14-3 between fixtures 1- 2. -3 that would work, keep in mind that the Black conductor will be hot all the way through and the Red will be the switchleg for the new fixtures , only issue may be number of conductors in the boxes, do you have a place where a junction box could be mounted? ie in a closet or cabinet as long as itís accessible.
Geo
 
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Old 06-08-20, 06:54 AM
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By the way, thanks a bunch for the time and thought you're giving my question Geochurchi. It is appreciated.

Good point about the number of conductors in the junction boxes of the wafer lights. I checked at one site (Lithonia) and they gave the box size as 12 cubic inches and a max of 6 conductors. What was odd is that they include 4 way connectors and if you used them all up that would put 6 conductors plus 1 for ground wires plus the connectors themselves (if they are counted) in the box.

Geochurchi, can you please clarify something in your comment "... after looking at your second drawing if you pull a 14-3 between fixtures 1- 2. -3 that would work,..."? There's a period after 1-2 and then -3 is added. Are you suggesting a 14-3 between 1 and 2 and another 14-3 between 2 and 3?

Yes, I could put a junction box in the kitchen cabinets. How would the junction box be used?
 
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Old 06-08-20, 09:20 AM
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Hi, 14- 3 between 1,2,&3 fixtures. If you use a J box, 14-3 from switch box, 14-2 from hood fan, 14-2 from kitchen light, your goal is to have a constant feed to fan and kitchen light, Red from the 14-3 will be connected to a 14-2 which will loop to new fixtures .
Geo
 
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Old 06-10-20, 07:14 AM
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Lambition, wondering if you can help me with a question that arose from your comment "As long as you keep all splices in accessible junction boxes, it doesn't really matter how you do it."

I was wondering if a junction box is accessible, under code, not trying to be a smartass here, if it is near where the wafer led will be placed? My reasoning is yes, since the wafer light is removable, a junction box nearby would be accessible. I was also thinking that it may be difficult to work on even though it is "accessible" so if it was not secured to a joist it could be taken out of the ceiling to be worked in, if need be. Thoughts?
 
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