Go Back  DoItYourself.com Community Forums > Electrical, AC & DC. Electronic Equipment and Computers > Electrical - AC & DC
Reload this Page >

1960s GE - Meter Socket / Circuit Panel - Torn Panel Label - Need more info

1960s GE - Meter Socket / Circuit Panel - Torn Panel Label - Need more info

Reply

  #1  
Old 06-11-20, 10:26 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
1960s GE - Meter Socket / Circuit Panel - Torn Panel Label - Need more info

Can anyone help me make out the make and model of this GE Circuit Breaker Panel Label?
My home was built in 1963 here in Southern California. My panel is a 100 amp, 12 space panel and I would like to know the specifications for the panel. Unfortunately the label is torn. I can make out the Catalog Number TRM12..... but from that point im lost. If anyone reading this has a home build in the 1960s if you could so kindly check your panel and take a picture and post it that would be fantastic. If anyone could steer me in the right direction as to where to email to find this sort of label, that would be great.
I appreciate all your help

Torn label from GE Circuit Panel Door
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 06-12-20, 07:09 AM
D
Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Southern Arizona
Posts: 116
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
I am at a loss to why you would even care about the specs on a panel 80 years old. Design life is usually 30-40 years. Those old circuit breakers may not even do the job any more. Testing small breakers is hard to do unless you have a test set and not many places would have one for equipment that old.

Eaton/Cutler-Hammer has a book called the YES book. Your electrical solutions. It covers a lot of the old equipment made by Westinghouse/CH. I do not know if GE makes a similar product for customers. Contact your local GE sales office and see if they can help. If anyone has the old drawings they would have access to them. Getting them to help will be the trick. I suggest you consider replacing the dinosaur on your wall with something made in this century.
 
  #3  
Old 06-12-20, 09:04 AM
L
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,418
Received 50 Votes on 46 Posts
What specification do you need to know?

All important specifications are still visible.
You have 100A panel. You have 14 space, 20 circuit panel. You have to use full size breakers (TQL and TQAL series) on top 8. You can use tandem breakers (TR series) for bottom 6.

TQL breakers are replaced by THQL and will fit in most cases, but I heard it sometimes don't fit (bus bar has changed in sometime in the middle).
TR breakers are obsolete not not available. Type BR tandems probably will fit, but you are not supposed to use breakers that are not listed. So, used or old new stocks are your only options.

 
  #4  
Old 06-12-20, 06:47 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the quick reply.

I would like the full specs so that I can know for sure that it is wired to spec, yes I could have it replaced with a modern panel, however it has served me well for many years, you know what they say if it is not broken then why fix. I don't have large power demands, other then my AC and Pool, but those are timed NOT to turn on at the same time. I run my pool pump in the middle of the night, and I would almost never run my AC at night.

Anyway, I just want to make out where to place the tandems. Just to be clear my panel has 12 slots, not 14. I have three 2-pole breakers, one for my air conditioner, one for my pool equipment panel, and one for my dryer. My plan is to remove the dryer circuit and replace with a 20 amp circuit for a remote shed/office that will have AC.So after this is all done, I might be left with one open slot. but that is another story...

So if anyone can help me that would be greatly appreciated as having the specifications would be helpful.
 
  #5  
Old 06-12-20, 11:57 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,128
Received 76 Votes on 64 Posts
If you don't need the dryer circuit, leave the breaker and run a 30 amp feeder to the outbuilding. Install a panel with 15 or 20 amp breakers for your loads.
 
  #6  
Old 06-13-20, 04:46 AM
L
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,418
Received 50 Votes on 46 Posts
I just want to make out where to place the tandems. Just to be clear my panel has 12 slots, not 14.
I miss read the label.. You can use bottom 8 spaces (5 through 20) with tandem.
However, like I said earlier, tandem breakers for your panel is no longer manufactured.

Running 30A feeder like pcboss suggests is what I would do as well.
 
  #7  
Old 07-04-20, 04:22 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Dryer Circuit is feeding GD Opener and lights -- now what do I do?



OK, I understand that it would be easy to send the 30 amp feed to the shed, however the issue now is that the dryer circuit is already tapped into. from the attached picture, there are three 10-gauge wires (two black and one white) that is feed in from the breaker panel. It is fed in via metal flex conduit that is connected to a metal box. First of all there is no ground wire being fed, however when I do a continuity check, the metal box is grounded by the metal flex, just letting you know that there is not a bare ground, but it is bonded to the panel via the metal flex conduit. So the two hot (black) and one (white) neutral 10-Gauge wires do go to the dryer outlet box, and that box is bonded to the metal junction box, however before they end up going to the dryer outlet box down below, the three 10 gauge wires are tapped into and sent to a four gang set of switches. The power from these switches then branch out (all in metal conduit) to the following: Front light on corner of house, front outlets in front planter, garage door, and two outlets near the switches, one on the inside and one on the outside stucco.

With all that said, is it possible just to disconnect the dryer all together and just branch off of the metal junction box, (where the three wires 10 gauge wires and metal flex connects to) but instead of 30 amp circuits, I could use single 20 amp breakers in the circuit panel and share the neutral. This would allow me to have two separate circuits, one feeding the garage circuits and the second one branched out to the shed.

My only concern is that there is not a ground, but the metal conduit would allow me to "pick-up" the ground in the metal box and use it for the two other circuits, garage and shed.

in the picture is shows two arrows going out of the box towards the Garage Door and light circuit and both of those conduits end up connecting back together at another metal box. I don't understand why the circuits were wired this way and I plan to clean this all up. I'm planning on a 20 amp circuit to power the GD, the corner light, front planter outlet, and two outlets "near" the 4 gang switch. this circuit is rarely used if at all, mainly the Garage Door, and then the corner light comes on automatically at night, the outlets are rarely used mainly to power a radio outside, and a microware from time to time in the garage, no large power tools.

Sorry for blabbing out here, just want help with my current situation.

Yes, I would like to install a new panel, however, I'm putting a kid through college and anything that I can do to save money I will.. hope you understand.

A reply would be greatly appreciated.

Larry F in California.
 
  #8  
Old 07-04-20, 05:04 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,128
Received 76 Votes on 64 Posts
You can remove the wiring from the splice and install the subpanel. This will allow for the proper overcurrent protection to be installed for the new circuits.
 
  #9  
Old 07-05-20, 10:47 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 10,600
Received 72 Votes on 63 Posts
You need a new subpanel for sure, but the very least that should be done is to change the dryer breaker to either two single pole 20 amp breakers or a 2-pole 20 amp breaker. General use light and receptacle circuits cannot be over 20 amp circuits.
 
  #10  
Old 07-05-20, 11:44 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Everyone,
thanks for all your support and assistance.

I agree that a sub panel is needed, However couldn't I run another neutral into the metal flex cable so I would now have two hots, two neutrals and capture the ground from the metal flex, and this would be enough for my two circuits. I have been researching and the only 30 amp sub panel box that I can find is a two pole, two circuit box made by Square D. So instead of having the sub panel, why not just run the two circuits back to the main breaker panel?

Also my main panel already has a sub panel out for the pool equipment area, that feeds my 220 pool pump, some outdoor lights, and the pool light it self, all of the "pool equipment" circuits are on GFCI at the "pool" circuit breaker and all the outlets are GFCI as well.

How many sub-panels can a main breaker panel have? if I add the garage sub panel as mentioned above, my main panel will now have two sub panels? The existing "pool" sub panel and the suggested "garage" panel. So I would prefer to use the flex metal conduit with either a shared neutral or snaking another neutral in the same flex metal conduit to get two separate circuits from my main panel to the junction box that is already in the garage and branch out from there, to the garage circuit, and also to the shed circuit.

If I go the route of the extra neutral wire, it might pose an another issue, will I have enough room in the metal flex to snake another neutral wire. I think that the Flex Metal Cable is 1/2 inch, and it already has three 10 gauge wires. So I was thinking on snaking a 12 gauge neutral, so that my new circuits would be as follows:
Circuit 1
one 10-gauge black, one 10-gauge white, ground from bond screw attached to metal junction box.
Circuit 2
one 10-gauge black, one 12-gauge white, ground from bond screw attached to metal junction box.

To do this, I will only need to snake a 12-gauge neutral in the Flex Metal Cable, and a brief measurement from the end of the Flex Metal Cable to the Main Breaker not more than 20 feet at the most.

Again, my only concern would be if I have enough "fill room" in the Flex Metal, and right now the three 10-gauge wires that are in the metal flex are all solid copper, so again I don't know if this would work based on the "fill room"

I'm just brainstorming here, so if you read to this point, any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,
Larry F. in California

 
  #11  
Old 07-05-20, 11:49 AM
J
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: welland ontario
Posts: 7,439
Received 210 Votes on 186 Posts
I just want to make out where to place the tandems.
Based on the age of that panel is almost certainly does not accept tandems. Based the picture of the breakers slots on the panel there are only places for 20 breakers.

If you are going to pull another white in the flex I would also pull green for ground and not rely on the flex for the ground.
 
  #12  
Old 07-05-20, 01:36 PM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 13,483
Received 169 Votes on 151 Posts
Flexible metallic conduit is only allowed to be used as a ground if the FMC is 6' or less and the circuit is 20 amps or less.
 
  #13  
Old 07-07-20, 02:15 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 10,600
Received 72 Votes on 63 Posts
How many sub-panels can a main breaker panel have?
There is no limit to the number of subpanels in the NEC, but at one point you run the risk of overloading the main panel. Considering the items you already have on the main panel I think doing a load calculation would be the prudent thing to do. You may need to upgrade to 200 amps.
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: