Removing old box to install deeper box
#1
Removing old box to install deeper box
I've got this old light switch/outlet combo. I installed recessed LED lights and want to install a dimmable LED switch.

The wiring seems fairly straightforward, but I'll run through it quickly just to make sure I haven't missed something.
- One 2 conductor cable (#1) enters box and one 3 conductor cable (#2) leaves box.
- The hot from cable #1 connects to black hot from cable #2 and to hot side of combo switch.
- The red hot from cable #2 connects to other side of switch. The red hot powers a switched outlet that powers the prior room lighting - a plug in lamp. I tapped into this red wire at that outlet to power the LED ceiling lights I installed.
- The neutrals from cables #1 and #2 connect together and to neutral side of outlet.
- Ground not connected, but these cables do have ground wires, so I will connect those to new switch.
So the issue is that I don't think most dimmable LED switches will fit. This is the particular dimmable LED switch I'm considering: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-S...H-WH/202517700
Don't think it will fit in this box, primarily because of the nails that run thru the box (you can see the upper nail in these pics; lower nail is harder to see, but it runs at the same depth as upper nail).


Seems I'd have to remove the box and install an old work box (the style that secures itself to the drywall by use of ears rather than securing to stud) to avoid cutting and patching drywall. To remove the box, I'd have to cut the nails, so I'm thinking this kind of blade for my multitool (and carefully using after moving cables as far out of way as possible).
Hacksaw blade is another option, but it would take forever with such short strokes. Other options I should consider?

The wiring seems fairly straightforward, but I'll run through it quickly just to make sure I haven't missed something.
- One 2 conductor cable (#1) enters box and one 3 conductor cable (#2) leaves box.
- The hot from cable #1 connects to black hot from cable #2 and to hot side of combo switch.
- The red hot from cable #2 connects to other side of switch. The red hot powers a switched outlet that powers the prior room lighting - a plug in lamp. I tapped into this red wire at that outlet to power the LED ceiling lights I installed.
- The neutrals from cables #1 and #2 connect together and to neutral side of outlet.
- Ground not connected, but these cables do have ground wires, so I will connect those to new switch.
So the issue is that I don't think most dimmable LED switches will fit. This is the particular dimmable LED switch I'm considering: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-S...H-WH/202517700
Don't think it will fit in this box, primarily because of the nails that run thru the box (you can see the upper nail in these pics; lower nail is harder to see, but it runs at the same depth as upper nail).


Seems I'd have to remove the box and install an old work box (the style that secures itself to the drywall by use of ears rather than securing to stud) to avoid cutting and patching drywall. To remove the box, I'd have to cut the nails, so I'm thinking this kind of blade for my multitool (and carefully using after moving cables as far out of way as possible).
Hacksaw blade is another option, but it would take forever with such short strokes. Other options I should consider?

#2
Those nails are easy to get out. No cutting involved.
Using a pair of wire cutters..... grab the nail and use the cutters as a fulcrum to move the nail.
After the nail moves a little bit. Reload the cutters and move the nail some more.
Watch the following video. They are removing external nails.
The same exact process applies to internal nails.
Removing nails using wire cutters/dykes video
Using a pair of wire cutters..... grab the nail and use the cutters as a fulcrum to move the nail.
After the nail moves a little bit. Reload the cutters and move the nail some more.
Watch the following video. They are removing external nails.
The same exact process applies to internal nails.
Removing nails using wire cutters/dykes video
cartman voted this post useful.
#4
Hacksaw blade is another option, but it would take forever
Put hacksaw blade between junction box and stud, not inside of the junction box. The nail will cut very easy.
I do this often with plastic junction boxes where nails are outside and hidden from the view.
The hardest part will be undoing all the splices and pulling wires out.
Existing drywall opening might be too big to install a remodel junction box though. Might have to use regular plastic junction box and drive screws from inside. This technically is against the code, but done very often.
https://extremehowto.com/wp-content/...ghtTT18&19.jpg
There are special junction boxes that are made to be screwed from inside, but not easy to get locally.
https://www.galesburgelectric.com/ar...angled-screws/
Also, if you go for a deeper box, your existing wire may be too short. Try to keep same depth if possible.
cartman voted this post useful.
#5
Actually, that will be very fast and easy unless you have very dull blade.
Put hacksaw blade between junction box and stud, not inside of the junction box. The nail will cut very easy.
I do this often with plastic junction boxes where nails are outside and hidden from the view.
Put hacksaw blade between junction box and stud, not inside of the junction box. The nail will cut very easy.
I do this often with plastic junction boxes where nails are outside and hidden from the view.
Existing drywall opening might be too big to install a remodel junction box though. Might have to use regular plastic junction box and drive screws from inside. This technically is against the code, but done very often.
https://extremehowto.com/wp-content/...ghtTT18&19.jpg
There are special junction boxes that are made to be screwed from inside, but not easy to get locally.
https://www.galesburgelectric.com/ar...angled-screws/
https://extremehowto.com/wp-content/...ghtTT18&19.jpg
There are special junction boxes that are made to be screwed from inside, but not easy to get locally.
https://www.galesburgelectric.com/ar...angled-screws/
Also, if you go for a deeper box, your existing wire may be too short. Try to keep same depth if possible.
#6
There are special junction boxes that are made to be screwed from inside, but not easy to get locally.
https://www.galesburgelectric.com/ar...angled-screws/
https://www.galesburgelectric.com/ar...angled-screws/
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Madison-Ele...Box/1000156805
The reviews for this box on Amazon are very positive and very numerous, which indicates lots of people are using these, and they are listed (UL), so maybe it is code compliant?
The Arlington box you linked uses different size KOs, so no problem getting 2 x 12/2 into box.

Easiest to source might be these new/old 1-gang boxes at Home Depot:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1...25AB/305110267
Apparently for old work, you break off the stud face mounting tab, and use screws at interior mounting location and toss the nails.
#7

@PJmax's suggestion on pulling out the nails worked. I used a pair of needle nose vise grips and was able to wiggle the nails out of the stud. Replaced the old box with the Carlon blue new/old work box pictured above, secured using 2" drywall screws. This blue box was plenty deep enough for the LED dimmers and the cables. Biggest hassle was pulling cables through the built-in NM clamps. These were much stiffer than the ones on Carlon new work boxes, even after I loosened them up a little with a flat blade screwdriver. Plus I didn't have a lot of room to get in there and really push/pull the cables because of the drywall. Next time I use these new/old boxes, I'll open the clamps up a bit more before pulling cables through.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
#9
You can remove clamps completely on those metal boxes. That will give you much better access with less snagging.