Separate Neutral and Ground in a sub panel

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  #1  
Old 11-17-20, 09:06 PM
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Separate Neutral and Ground in a sub panel

In my home I currently have two panels in my basement. One is my main original panel and the other is a sub panel added when my home was renovated. The sub in the basement does not contain a main breaker which I believe if I have the terminology correct that makes it a main lug panel. In that sub panel I notice there is no bonding screw and there is a separate ground bar.

I recently had an electrician install a new panel in my garage which again is hung off the original one in the basement. In this case this panel does have a main breaker installed (QO124M100PC). I was looking this over tonight and I notice that the Neutrals and the Ground wires are attached to the same bar(s). I do not see a bonding screw.

I am curious if this difference seems correct? I was under the impression that all sub-panels (main breaker or main lug) should have the neutrals and the grounds separated. Am I just incorrect and these can be together since this panel has a main or do I have a problem I need to have dealt with?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 11-17-20, 09:29 PM
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the Neutrals and the Ground wires are attached to the same bar(s). I do not see a bonding screw.
This is incorrect installation. In a sub panel, neutral and ground must be separated and neutral not bonded to ground.
If this panel was fed directly from the meter, then this is 2nd main panel and neutral and ground should be bonded. But this is highly unlikely to be done in existing building.

Was this panel inspected?
Not all inspectors actually check for this, but should have failed inspection.
I have seen inspectors passing inspection on incorrect installation multiple times. For some reason, they are more focused on catching not having AFCI than actual incorrect wiring problem.

Incorrect multi wire branch circuit wiring (wired on same phase), not having bonding, and neutral wire on ground bus bar is what I have seen inspectors passing without problem so far..
 
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Old 11-18-20, 05:51 AM
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Thanks for the reply, that's what I thought. Much appreciated

It has not been inspected yet so I am going to get this corrected but it does call into question the person doing the work. Guess I need to find someone new.
 
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Old 11-18-20, 07:50 AM
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Ok - now I am paranoid and reviewing everything. Could you confirm that #6 ground wire is adequate on a 60amp 240 branch circuit feed with #8 hot wires? My research seems to indicate that is fine but would like some confirmation.

Thanks again.
 
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Old 11-18-20, 08:13 AM
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No. 6, 8, and 10 gauge branch circuits can all use a #10 equipment grounding conductor.
 
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Old 11-18-20, 08:32 AM
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Could you confirm that #6 ground wire is adequate on a 60amp 240 branch circuit feed with #8 hot wires?
A #10 copper is all that is required for the Equipment Grounding Conductor so the #6 is certainly more than adequate. I would me more concerned that #8 conductors are protected at 60 amps. The #8 conductors must be protected at no more than 50 amps. For a 60 amp feeder the conductors should be #6s.
 
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Old 11-18-20, 08:48 AM
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Thank you both - I am a bone head and had a brain fart - did that backwards... It #6 Hot and #8 Ground... Seems like that is fine
 
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Old 11-18-20, 08:57 AM
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Yes, that is fine ...................................
 
 

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