Knob and tube 60 amp service question


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Old 05-07-21, 05:53 AM
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Knob and tube 60 amp service question

I have a knob and tube 60 amp service that uses glass gfci fuses all at 20 amps. I have an unused 30 amp connection that use to feed an electric stove. I would like to run 10-2 out to a shed and using a 60 amp load center to establish a 30 amp service and branch off that to 2 15 amp lines for receptacles and overhead lights. What do I need to do ? Thank you for any insight to my not yet delemna.
 

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05-07-21, 11:25 AM
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No. When using cable..... all conductors need to be contained in one common jacket.
As far as I know..... conduit is not considered as a common jacket.
 
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Old 05-07-21, 10:39 AM
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Welcome to the forums.

Started new thread for your question.

Yes.... you could use the 30A 240v location to feed a sub panel.
You will need to run four wires..... 2 hots, neutral and ground.
You could run 10/3 w/gr. UF cable.
You could also use PVC pipe and individual wires. (my preferred choice)

What specific questions do you have ?
 
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Old 05-07-21, 10:43 AM
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do I have to use a 10-3 romex or can I use the existing 10-2 with a neutral. I used this connection for an outside condensing unit last year.
 
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Old 05-07-21, 10:55 AM
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Romex is only used indoors. It's not waterproof. UF cable is used outside and underground.
A condenser is 240v and doesn't require neutral so it runs on two wires and ground.

You could use 10/2 w/gr. which would give to 30A at 120v. That may be all you need.
You would only use one 30A fuse to protect the black wire.
The white wire would connect to neutral.
 
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Old 05-07-21, 11:11 AM
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TY. or I could run single 10 gauge through conduit and main as a neutral connection to enhance the 10-2 I already have. ?
 
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Old 05-07-21, 11:25 AM
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No. When using cable..... all conductors need to be contained in one common jacket.
As far as I know..... conduit is not considered as a common jacket.
 
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Old 05-07-21, 11:31 AM
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ok I found 10-3 uf for a decent price, but the description says it can be directly buried without conduit. Your thoughts and thank you for your input.
 
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Old 05-07-21, 11:58 AM
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Regular Romex (NM-b) is not allowed to be used outdoors even if in conduit. The wire needs to be rated for use in wet areas. You can use UF-b cable or individual THWN wires in conduit.
Sorry for redundant comment. Computer was slow loading and didn't see previous post.
 
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Old 05-07-21, 12:05 PM
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Direct bury needs 24" of cover whereas conduit requires 18" of cover.
 
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Old 05-10-21, 08:17 AM
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change of plans. Can I use a Square-d safety switch 30 amp and break out 2 15 amp runs using mini breaker fuses ? Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 05-10-21, 09:48 AM
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Safety switch where.... in the shed ?
Mini breaker fuses ? New ?
 
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Old 05-10-21, 10:35 AM
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yes safety switch in shed and branch out 2 15 amp lines with new mini breaker fuses
 
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Old 05-10-21, 11:41 AM
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2 15 amp runs are also in the shed, for tool battery charging, radio etc.
 
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Old 05-10-21, 01:34 PM
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Not sure what a safety switch is but it would probably be cheaper to use a 2 or 4 circuit sub panel. If you are staying with 10-2 wiring then you would have two 15A 120v circuits.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 12:20 PM
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Angry knob & Tube 60 amp main panel to a 60 amp sub panel in shed.

I wired in using 10-3 from main to sub panel. I used a seimans 60 amp load center wired in with 10-3. I added 2 15 amp breakers at sub panel and 14-2 for feeds. My problem is when I click off 1 breaker it kills both sides . I test it Im getting 240 in and then at the breakers Im getting 121 on 1 side and 123 on the other. My led lights work and my charger but my small air compressor does not. also if I unplug charger or lights everything goes off. Im am sending pics and maybe you can help me. Thanks.






 
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Old 05-11-21, 01:12 PM
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Wiring looks ok except for the white wire on the right breaker.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 02:00 PM
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Thats a black line with the insulation still on it. 10-3 came in grey insulation. thanks for your reply.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 02:21 PM
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The breakers are not working independantly of each other. Doesn't matter which 1 you shut off it kills both circuits.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 02:39 PM
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The breakers are not working independantly of each other. Doesn't matter which 1 you shut off it kills both circuits.
I'd like to see how the 10-3 is connected at the main panel.

The shed circuits should be GFCI protected.

I have a knob and tube 60 amp service that uses glass gfci fuses all at 20 amps.
I have never seen nor heard of a GFCI glass fuse, can you show some pictures.

 
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Old 05-11-21, 02:58 PM
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Angry

main panel connection is in the first 2 pics above and actually they are mini circuit interrupter fuses


 
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Old 05-11-21, 03:02 PM
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do I need to put bigger buss cartridges in my pull out at the main
 
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Old 05-11-21, 03:10 PM
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mini circuit interrupter fuses = mini circuit breakers. No GFI capability.
Sorry.... I was able to enhance your one picture.... the top two are too dark to work with.

If you are using a 240v pullout.... then you need 30A fuses in it.
Actually as long as the pullout fuses are at least 20A you'll be fine as your end circuits are protected at 15A each.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 03:27 PM
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Angry

here are 3 brighter pics, sorry about the darkness.




 

Last edited by PJmax; 05-11-21 at 03:41 PM. Reason: resized/enhanced/labeled pics
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Old 05-11-21, 03:31 PM
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Those circuit breaker/fuses only protect the one terminal I've marked.

I see red and black going to a pull out location. I see ground on a separate lug. (green arrow)
I see white on what looks like a combo bar.... ground and neutral although I don't see the incoming neutral connected there.

The red circle is around the incoming service wires. There should be three.
I don't see the neutral. The incoming neutral wire is where the neutral should be connected.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 03:46 PM
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The white wire under the first fuse to the right is the neutral and connected at a terminal under the fuse to the left. I mean, I have a red, black, white and ground. I thought the white was the neutral. Thanks
 
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Old 05-11-21, 04:04 PM
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OK, I got it. I had a loose neutral in my junction box. Man do I feel stupid and relieved at the same time. Thank you all for your help, now I can fill in this 30 foot trench 2 feet deep and get to work.
 
 

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