Advice on correct wire size and type


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Old 05-11-21, 12:10 PM
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Advice on correct wire size and type

I am about to wire up my shop which is about 100ft from the service pole. My service is 200amps at the pole and 100 of that feeds my mobile home. I plan to run the other 100amps to my 24 x 15 ft shop and am considering 2-2-2-4 aluminum wire ran through a pvc conduit underground.

Is this the right wire size and what type of wire would you recommend ?
 
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Old 05-11-21, 02:06 PM
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You would want to use MHF, Mobile Home Feeder. It is direct burial rated so it really only needs to be in conduit above grade or within a building.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 02:52 PM
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Thank you Joe. I will put it in PVC underground anyway just because we have moles and a dog that likes to dig them up
 
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Old 05-11-21, 02:56 PM
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In PVC is fine.
You will also need to use a 90A breaker in the supply panel.
#2 is rated for 90A. #1 is rated for 100A.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 03:24 PM
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So, my breaker box came with a 100 amp main breaker. If I buy the wire at the link below I could use 100 ampS ?

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/...ribution-cable
 
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Old 05-11-21, 03:27 PM
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Yes..... 1/0 is rated at 120A.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 03:58 PM
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FYI, that is distribution cable and only carries a USE-2 rating and is not allowed to enter the structure. It needs to be terminated outside. Buy one long piece of aluminium XHHW-2 in #1 and cut into 3 pieces.
And a piece of green #6 for the ground.
Also bury depth is 18" of cover for PVC conduit.
 

Last edited by pattenp; 05-11-21 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 05-11-21, 05:14 PM
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Thanks for the FYI. This project is getting to be something of a "project" . I don't know that 18" is doable out here in Missouri, we sit on top of a lot of granite. Just digging some post holes with a power auger was almost impossible after the first foot. I know for a fact that the power into the mobile home is less than 18" down, more like 10" I think was what the cable company installer read out on his buried cable finder. On the positive side, I live in the country, no building permission or permits needed. I could rent a trencher but that would cost the better part of $500 for a day. Guess I will do the best I can and call it good.
 
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Old 05-11-21, 05:38 PM
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To meet NEC requirements if less than 18" you can cover with 2" of concrete. Also marking tape is to be placed above to indicate buried cable if some one digs in the future .
 
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Old 05-12-21, 11:36 AM
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I took some pics of the service box. I would assume that I would put a 100amp breaker in one of those slots to feed my new shop? The 30 amp breaker feeds the old shop. I would like to keep both if possible but it looks like I can only have one or the other because of the 100Amp maximum plug-in breaker label ?


 

Last edited by leighG; 05-12-21 at 11:42 AM. Reason: more information
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Old 05-12-21, 12:34 PM
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The 100A max is per breaker, not the sum of breakers. You can leave the 30A.
 
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Old 05-12-21, 12:57 PM
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Thanks PattenP you have been most helpful. I have one last question. This box was upgraded by the power co last year to 200amp in preparation for the new shop. The main breaker in the house is 100amp and the existing cable was not changed. I am wondering, is it okay to that they put the 100 amp house circuit directly to the 200 amp feed ? I have to assume since they are the power company they knew what they were doing right ?
 
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Old 05-12-21, 01:35 PM
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Well I guess I have one more question, sorry to be a pain. If I am using 1-1-1-6 alu feed cable, what would be the correct type of breaker I need for this service co box? I have read that the lugs on the breaker might not accept 1/0 wire
 
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Old 05-12-21, 01:46 PM
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I am wondering, is it okay to that they put the 100 amp house circuit directly to the 200 amp feed ?
No.... not really.
How far is the main house panel from that breaker ?

I'm seeing a few issues. The red arrow indicates the need for a proper connector.
I see the meter to 200A breaker (Line) connections.
I see the Load lugs with two services connected. I labeled them A and B.
One to the house....where does the other one go ?

 
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Old 05-12-21, 01:49 PM
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You would use a HOM2100 . It's a Sq. D 2P100A breaker for home panel.
 
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Old 05-12-21, 02:01 PM
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Hi PJ .. Yes the red arrow is the old shop line. Its about 15ft from the pole and strung between the pole and the shed. The main house line "B" is less than 50 ft from the pole. The "A" stuff was all done by the power co
 
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Old 05-12-21, 03:48 PM
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It looks like A is an additionally connected load. The poco only works on wiring before the meter.

You said pole so that means aerial service. That service should go into the top of the meter pan. In the picture I can see the meter to main breaker bus bars. So I'm confused at what A is. It should not be the incoming service.


 
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Old 05-12-21, 04:11 PM
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I believe you are mistaken PJ. "A" is the wires coming down from the top of the pole. "B" is the connection to my house and the small breaker on the left is to the old shed/shop. There is no other load on this pole unless you count the yard light


Shed line in black

Taken from the house back door
 
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Old 05-12-21, 04:28 PM
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I think that A feeds the 4 breaker spaces. Never mind. Looks like Durham and shows taking any brand of 1" breaker.

Is that SJO cord that feeds the old shop?

Since this is the service panel the feed to the home should be 4 wire. Maybe grandfathered when the panel upgrade was done?
 
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Last edited by Astuff; 05-12-21 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 05-12-21, 05:06 PM
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I am thoroughly confused. If A is the incoming service then it would be bypassing the meter and your house would not have any protection. When was this work done ?
 
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Old 05-12-21, 05:33 PM
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Well, the POCO did the swap from 100a service to 200a service about 9 months ago and they put in this new box and meter. I did none of this work nor did I connect the house, it was all existing when I bought the property. No doubt there should be a 4 wire cable to the home but there isn't and it's beyond my ability to change it. All I know is that it works. I wish I could take pics further up inside the box but the top cover is not removable, at least by me anyway and even if it was I am not going to.

I do not know what SJO cord is. The linemen were not all that happy putting it back in service, said I should bury it but it is only running about 10 feet or so. Wish I could be more helpful guys but I sure appreciate the feedback and advice you have all given me.
 
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Old 05-12-21, 06:12 PM
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SJO is rubber cable. It's not normally used for permanent connections.
It's typically what's used for rubber extension cords with good caps. (plug & rec)
 
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Old 05-12-21, 06:16 PM
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If you want 100A then use a 100A feeding breaker. The #1 Al wire is rated for 100A. I'm lost as to why you are set on #1/0 when #1 is all you need.
 
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Old 05-12-21, 06:32 PM
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Looks like the 200A breaker was bypassed so the service conductors are unfused from the meterbase to the house panel. I'd love to see the connections in the meterbase.
 
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Old 05-12-21, 07:00 PM
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Why would the POCO bypass the breaker? Should I call the POCO supervisor and get him over here ?

pattenP .. I intend to use your suggestion for wire . " Buy one long piece of aluminium XHHW-2 in #1 and cut into 3 pieces. And a piece of green #6 for the ground" I do not know the difference between 1/0 wire and #1 wire, thought they were the same thing to be honest. Also do not know what a "feeding breaker" is .. pretty sure Lowes won't either .. yep, searched for it and nothing found.
And yes on SJO wire .. but it's temporary.
 
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Old 05-12-21, 07:24 PM
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It's hard to tell what the poco did. I labeled where their lines should have been connected. If they did connect them to the line like they are supposed to..... where are those wires (A) coming down from ? It looks like their wiring bypasses the meter and breaker.

1/0 is one size larger than #1.

Very basic wire size/ampacity chart.
 
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Old 05-12-21, 08:12 PM
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Crazy idea: A goes back up the mast and one leg feeds the light? Other leg is looped around the service neutral.
 
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Old 05-13-21, 04:31 AM
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When I say feeding breaker that's the breaker you put in the meter panel that will supply power to the shop. It's just a regular 2pole 100A breaker of the same brand as the metermain panel.
 
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Old 05-13-21, 04:43 AM
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Go out when the pole light is on and flip off the 200A breaker and see if both the house and pole light go out.
 
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Old 05-13-21, 05:10 AM
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Go out when the pole light is on and flip off the 200A breaker and see if both the house and pole light go out.
No power to the house or light means A isn't connected to the transformer. The lug kit adds connection points for the 'near-future' shop connection, but still doesn't explain what A is.
 
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Old 05-13-21, 02:25 PM
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Hi Everyone
I pulled the switch and the house went dark. Couldn't tell for the yard light since the bulb has blown. I guess the breaker is working. Also, found a buried 2" PVC pipe 10 ft from the pole that was used to carry waste bathroom water out into the garden. It goes all the way under the house and comes up under the bathroom. It is no longer in use but will be perfect to string my new cable through. That will save a ton of digging
 
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Old 05-15-21, 05:30 PM
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Why would the POCO bypass the breaker? Should I call the POCO supervisor and get him over here ?
A quick review of your electric bills should tell you if the house is bypassed or not.


where are those wires (A) coming down from ?
PJ, take a look once more at the first picture in post #18. The wires coming down the mast to feed the entire service appear to be red. The wires at (A) are black so they can't be coming from the transformer connection.

 
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Old 05-16-21, 02:29 AM
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The wires at (A) are black so they can't be coming from the transformer connection.
I agree 100%. So where are they coming from ? Can't be the streetlight.
 
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Old 05-17-21, 01:00 PM
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Red to the top of the meter, black out (A). Neither the meter or the breaker is bypassed. Breaker kills house power. Electric bill is steady over 1 year.
 
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Old 05-17-21, 02:42 PM
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Red to the top of the meter, black out (A).
So, where do those 2 black wires from (A) go?
 
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Old 05-17-21, 03:32 PM
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So, where do those 2 black wires from (A) go?
Beats me but I am pretty sure that my power is not being stolen. The poco is coming over next week to put a new security light. I will ask them.
 
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Old 05-17-21, 07:09 PM
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I agree 100%. So where are they coming from ? Can't be the streetlight.
Actually, it looks like it does go to the streetlight. I don't see any splice for the streetlight. All I see is 2 black wires coming out of the weather head. One goes to the street light and the other one is just coiled up. Not sure how it is getting neutral. May be tapped into ground bonding wire on the pole? I think I see something spliced to it next the light.
That streetlight would be metered since it is on a private property. Don't know why it would be be fed from a breaker though. Maybe the light is still owned and maintained by the power company and didn't want anyone else messing with it.
 
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Old 05-17-21, 10:29 PM
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I see two black wires coming out of the head and not connected. Not taped off either but live.
I see what looks like a piece of UF cable to the street light.
 
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Old 05-18-21, 01:18 PM
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I see what looks like a piece of UF cable to the street light.
To me, that looks like ground bonding wire stapled along the pole.
Also, there is no UF cable in the load center.
 
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Old 05-20-21, 04:02 PM
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Hey Guys

Do I have to put a 100 amp breaker in here or should I just put my new wire direct to those lugs under the 200 amp breaker where it says LOAD ?



 
 

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