Updating Main Panel


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Old 05-19-21, 11:24 AM
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Updating Main Panel

I went to update my main panel(200 amp). I have a main and sub on opposite end of house. I've been in the sub quite a feew times fixing stuff and changing aluminum to copper and dont like that its FPE stab lok....very old. Anyhow, I bought a new one, Square D QO, with all AFCI,s and combination faults. Before I called to have the power shut off I pulled the cover off the main (both are FPE) to find there's no ground. Only two main hots and a bare neutral that's like 30 aluminum wires. So I'm planning on driving a 5/8 rod with #4 outside the house and connecting this to the ground and bonding it with the nuetral. Is this normal on older homes?
 
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Old 05-19-21, 02:55 PM
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No ground rods is normal. Often the ground was to the water line. If the water line coining into your house is metal it needs to be used as the ground. You need two ground rods also.
 
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Old 05-19-21, 03:17 PM
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If you have a metal water supply line..... the ground may be connected directly into the meter pan.
 
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Old 05-19-21, 06:45 PM
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Yes, the water lines coming in are metal and then copper inside. I dont see any ground coming into either box unless it's before the main panel on the meter. I'll have to look again tomorrow.
 
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Old 05-20-21, 09:51 AM
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Well duh, there it is. Looks like its bonded to the pipe in multiple places and then goes to the sub 125 amp panel. Is this okay?.....I'd rather it go to the main panel. I have a meeting but will check later whether the neutral and ground is bonded in the sub.
 
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Old 05-20-21, 10:32 AM
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With a panel replacement, you'll need to:

* Install 2 new ground rods, 8' deep, spaced at least 6' apart. Connected using acorn clamps with a continuous 6ga wire back to the main panel (typically, though some areas want it connected to the meter pan). Use 1/2 PVC conduit sleeve if needed for protection (don't use EMT).

* Bond the water line right where it comes into the house (if metal piping out to the street). Connect using a brass pipe clamp and run back to the main panel. 6ga wire.

* 6ga Jumper across the water meter. Most installs will use the same wire as above and join to both sides of the water meter with pipe clamps. Usually not needed if plastic piping is used in the house.

* 6ga jumper across the hot/cold lines on the water heater. Usually not needed if plastic piping is used in the house.

* Some areas require a similar bonding to the gas pipe where it enters the house. Always required if CSST (flexible gas pipe) used in the house (not required if only short flexible gas pipes are used to connect the appliance to the rigid gas piping.

* The feeder to your subpanel needs to be 4-conductor (hot/hot/neutral/ground) cable. Old feeders were often 3-condutor. AFAIK, most areas require the feeder to be upgraded to 4-conductor if the subpanel is upgraded, but it may depend on your locale.
 
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Old 05-20-21, 01:29 PM
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The ground should go the first disconnect on your service. Usually that is the main panel, but sometimes they put a disconnect at the meter, which would be the bonding point if it exists.
 
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Old 05-20-21, 05:16 PM
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A 200 amp service requires a #4 copper wire to the metal waterline. It is based on the size of the conductors used to feed the panel. The water line is your primary grounding electrode. The ground rod(s) are the supplemental grounding electrode(s) and only require a #6 copper wire.

It is also required to add a surge protection device to a panel that has been replaced.
 
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Old 05-21-21, 10:34 AM
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Okay, that sounds all straightforward. I have to move the ground wire to the main, and probably increase it to a 6 or 4 gauge and then a dedicated wire going to two rods. I was already planning on adding the 4 wire to the sub when I saw it. My only question is it it possible for the ground to be connected at the main meter outside the house? I see where the line enters in through the masonry but also see conduit going to the earth. Perhaps a question for the POCO or local inspector? I'm in North Florida.
 
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Old 05-21-21, 02:44 PM
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My only question is it it possible for the ground to be connected at the main meter outside the house?
Yes, it is possible. In some areas the utility company requires the GEC from ground rods be terminated inside the meter socket. That GEC never needs to be bigger than a #6 copper. The GEC from the water service for 200 amp service must be #4 copper OR #2 aluminum. This is the one place I prefer using aluminum because of cost.

At one time the electrician had the option of grounding the neutral either to the nearest metal cold water pipe OR to a ground rod, but both was not required.
 
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Old 05-22-21, 02:51 PM
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Thanks Tolyn for the ground/bond gauge correction. I'd edit my post, but can't.
 
 

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