Relocating an outlet for new cabinets


  #1  
Old 09-25-22, 11:31 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 395
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Relocating an outlet for new cabinets

I'm installing new built-in cabinets in my kitchen in an area which previously had just a stand alone piece of furniture (small sideboard).

On that wall, I have an outlet (part of Service Branch 2 IIRC). This GFCI protected circuit contains outlets on the existing countertop as well as those on the walls of the kitchen.

I assume I have to have an outlet since I will have a small countertop in this new cabinet setup (and would like one anyway).

So I have to move the outlet up - but I lack the slack in the wire to do so. Here are the options I came up with - any recommendations (or any code issues)?

1 - Move existing outlet to INSIDE the cabinet, then run a wire (in wall) to the new outlet above the countertop.

2 - Install a junction box in the crawl space underneath (wire going into the box originates from there and then goes out to feed another outlet) and extend the wire and move the box to above the countertop.

Below are some pics for clarity - thanks for the help!

 
  #2  
Old 09-25-22, 11:37 AM
2
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA near Boston, MA
Posts: 2,002
Received 282 Likes on 241 Posts
You can use the existing outlet as a junction box. It must be accessible but inside a cabinet is acceptable. Cut an opening in the back wall of the cabinet, install an extension ring on the box to allow mounting a blank cover plate. Run a new cable from that box to the new location above and splice to the existing wiring in the junction box.

A box in the kickspace is not accessible unless it is mounted through the kick panel with a blank cover plate.
 
The following users liked this post:
  #3  
Old 09-25-22, 11:41 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 395
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thanks John - I was thinking that as option 3 after I typed this.

What are your thoughts on option 2? I guess it won't make much difference if I go the junction box route, but a big part of me does not want to cut a hole in the back of the cabinet.
 
  #4  
Old 09-25-22, 12:02 PM
2
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA near Boston, MA
Posts: 2,002
Received 282 Likes on 241 Posts
Downsides to Option 2:
Very limited space to work (laying on the floor peering into a 4 inch high recessed space).
Still have to cut the hole in the kick panel.
Cutting into existing feed through to other outlets.
Visible blank cover plate in kick panel.

Upside to JB in cabinet:
Enough room to work and see what you are doing (even though limited).
Out of sight, out of mind.
If you do it right the edge of the back panel cut will be covered by the box cover plate. (But who is going to look in there anyway.
 
  #5  
Old 09-25-22, 12:12 PM
badeyeben's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southern ILLINOIS
Posts: 1,221
Received 52 Likes on 46 Posts
I think option 2 is best. As I read it I think you are going into the crawl space under the house to mount a junction box then from there to the new outlet. Then you can simply remove the old box and drywall patch (or whatever covering you have on the wall) to make a clean install. Think about running the wiring from the new location to the old then tie the 2 together to use the old wire as a pull string to get the new wire into the crawlspace.
 
  #6  
Old 09-25-22, 12:46 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 395
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thanks John and Ben - I should note the crawl space is 4' tall so working in there isn't terrible (though not great). I have to go down there to re-plumb the baseboard so can't avoid it anyway.

If option 2 I would do it exactly as Ben outlined - tie new wire into existing, pull down into crawl space and splice in junction box. The existing wire goes though the sill plate so wouldn't have to cut the cabinet - the other thing is I can do this before the cabinets arrive.
 
  #7  
Old 09-25-22, 01:43 PM
2
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA near Boston, MA
Posts: 2,002
Received 282 Likes on 241 Posts
I misread crawl space for kick space.

Option 2 is best.

Are there 2 cables going into the existing outlet box? If so, then you will have to pull them both back to the junction box in the crawl space as well as pulling the new cable for the new outlet from the new wall opening to the JB.

If the second cable feeds through the wall to the next outlet instead of via the crawl space, how will you extend those wires? Splices in the wall not allowed.
 
  #8  
Old 09-25-22, 01:56 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 395
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I dug up an old pic in the middle of the remodel so just roughing in wires (and I'm sure I secured cable going in within 12" of the box before I finished). Yellow wires are the ones I'm moving - one wire going in, one going out to another outlet.

Plan would be to pull that bottom wire coming in from the sill plate into the crawl space with the new wire attached (to get through the sill plate). The new wire would then be in a junction box in the crawl space and long enough to reach the higher outlet.

I would remove the existing box and patch it, then cut a new hole higher where I would feed the new wire and run the exiting upper wire into the box and cut the extra length so all connections would be made in the new (higher) outlet box.

Any concerns with this approach?


 
  #9  
Old 09-25-22, 02:10 PM
2
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA near Boston, MA
Posts: 2,002
Received 282 Likes on 241 Posts
If you are not opening up the entire wall or a large part of it, you may have trouble getting free of the staples and grabbing those upper cables.

I am back to option 3. You can do all the work except for the cover plate before the cabinet arrives, measure carefully and cut the hole in the back from outside before placing the cabinet and install the cover plate after the cabinet is installed. A piece of cardboard with some tape sticky side out on the outlet box extension makes a good template for cutting. Press the cabinet against the tape and when you remove the cabinet the template will show exactly where to cut.
 
  #10  
Old 09-25-22, 02:23 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 395
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I was thinking that but I figure I can reach my hand up there with a slightly larger hole to free it or even cut it.

This wall is going to be covered - I'll still patch, mud, and paint but I'll never see it again.
 
  #11  
Old 09-26-22, 11:56 AM
badeyeben's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southern ILLINOIS
Posts: 1,221
Received 52 Likes on 46 Posts
I would cut the upper hole first and be sure I could reach the second upper wire. That may determine if it can be done the way you want. If you can indeed get the upper wire cut loose and have enough to splice with then run the new wire through the upper hole. Then you can hook it to the other lower wire to pull it down to the crawl space. Not to say your way won't work .
If you can't get the upper wire free enough to work then you have 2 options. Put the splice inside the cabinet or cut a larger hole to access the wire and patch it up.
 
The following users liked this post:
  #12  
Old 09-26-22, 01:56 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 395
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thanks Ben - Appreciate the advice.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: