240V breaker not giving any power to my electric oven


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Old 09-23-23, 05:47 PM
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240V breaker not giving any power to my electric oven

Hello all,
I am quite new at this DIY electrical stuff so feel free to be as thorough to my mistakes here.
Currently, we are changing from a gas range to an electric oven. So we decided to add an outlet for the 240v 50A max.
I used an 8/3 Romex for this (we called an electrician and they gave us 10/3 mistakenly. Ran it along the walls with supports and connected it to a 240v/50A 4-prong outlet.
I connected it to the circuit breaker as well after turning everything off. The neutral and ground wires are on the bars, they are not separated since this is the main circuit breaker of my house.
Then once powered on we get nothing. I tested the voltage to find 0V through the hot wire connection and the ground. I'm not sure if I just wired something wrong.
Thank you all in advance for the advice given.

wire connections to the outlet

wire connections to the outlet.


current outlet I've installed

Current circuit breaker with markers on the new double pole and romex wire feeding int othe breakre box.

behind the circuit breaker

 

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09-23-23, 08:05 PM
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See PJmax's post #2. You cannot put a breaker in that location of the panel.

#8 Romex is only allowed to be protected by a 40 amp breaker max. You need to replace that breaker with a two pole 40 amp.
 
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Old 09-23-23, 06:14 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

Your wiring looks ok.
Did you check from red to ground and black to ground right at the panel ?
Should be 120v on each leg.
How about from red to black at the breaker ? Should be 240v.

If that's ok....you should get 240v from L1 to L2 on the receptacle.
AND 120v from L1 to N or G and 120v from L2 to N or G.



Just noticed on a second look..............
You've put the breaker in the location opposite from the main breaker.
It doesn't look there are proper busses there for breaker to connect to.

Post a picture of the panel cover with the diagram and breaker locations on it.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 09-23-23 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 09-23-23, 06:51 PM
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Did you turn On the 100 amp main circuit breaker that energizes the panel's two hot bus bars? And did you securely install the 50 amp 2 pole C/B onto the panel interior so the C/B is attached to the bus? Did it make good connection and fit on the bus? And did you turn On the 50 amp 2 pole breaker that feeds the new 50 amp 4-prong receptacle?

Why was the 40/2 C/B pictured with red square on it with the 8 gauge wire attached? What was that about when you had a 50/2 C/B?

Do you have the 4 wires (2 Hots, Neutral & Ground) wired to the back of the 4-prong 50A receptacle securely to the correct blade locations? It's difficult to tell from the images.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 09-24-23 at 05:03 PM. Reason: removed un-needed picture
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Old 09-23-23, 08:05 PM
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See PJmax's post #2. You cannot put a breaker in that location of the panel.

#8 Romex is only allowed to be protected by a 40 amp breaker max. You need to replace that breaker with a two pole 40 amp.
 
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Old 09-23-23, 08:11 PM
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There's something strange going on with the breaker bus connections - the spacing looks weird.

Also weird, in the first image directly below - there is what appears to be a black part of the interior (almost in the very top-center of the interior just above the 40/2 C/B). I have highlighted it in green on the image. This black plastic piece appears to probably play a part in holding the interior's bus bars in-place so branch breakers can be installed on the bus - but this black plastic part is missing in the second image below! This missing black plastic piece confuses me! Why is it missing after removing the 40/2 C/B from the interior? What happened to it?

And why was it important or even necessary to point out the 40/2 C/B by drawing a red square on it? What was the purpose of doing that?






Original first image without the green highlighting:


Could the OP have installed the 50/2 C/B onto just one bus connection instead of the two bus connections that is needed for a two pole C/B? With the way the bus looks astray I think that might be possible - and if so that is why the OP could not attain the voltage he expected.
 

Last edited by Kooter; 09-23-23 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 09-24-23, 07:16 AM
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A breaker cannot be installed opposite the main breaker. That panel is not designed to accept breakers there.

Could the OP have installed the 50/2 C/B onto just one bus connection instead of the two bus connections that is needed for a two pole C/B?
No. That is an Eaton/Cutler Hammer BR panel. They have the same bus design as Square D Homeline, Siemens/ITE, GE, and others.
 
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Old 09-24-23, 07:56 AM
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A breaker cannot be installed opposite the main breaker. That panel is not designed to accept breakers there.
Then why is there a 40/2 C/B (with OP's red square painted on it) installed opposite the factory-installed 100 Amp main breaker?
 

Last edited by Kooter; 09-24-23 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 09-24-23, 08:03 AM
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That interior appears to be an Eaton Type BR 'Renovation Load Center' with a factory installed 100A MB plus1-BR230 and 2-BR115 branches included if it is for Renovation according to the docs below.



https://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/pub...ol01_tab01.pdf


 

Last edited by Kooter; 09-24-23 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 09-24-23, 11:01 AM
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Just noticed on a second look..............
You've put the breaker in the location opposite from the main breaker.
It doesn't look there are proper busses there for breaker to connect to.

Post a picture of the panel cover with the diagram and breaker locations on it.


__________________
~ Pete ~
​​​​​​
Thank you Pete! This was exactly the problem! I had to do some shifting of the breakers on the bottom to make room but now it is working. Thank you again! Of course if there are other little things you see wrong here let me know, I do was to ensure everything is safely secured, even from the brand/type of the circuit breaker used.

There's something strange going on with the breaker bus connections - the spacing looks weird.

Also weird, in the first image directly below - there is what appears to be a black part of the interior (almost in the very top-center of the interior just above the 40/2 C/B). I have highlighted it in green on the image. This black plastic piece appears to probably play a part in holding the interior's bus bars in-place so branch breakers can be installed on the bus - but this black plastic part is missing in the second image below! This missing black plastic piece confuses me! Why is it missing after removing the 40/2 C/B from the interior? What happened to it?

And why was it important or even necessary to point out the 40/2 C/B by drawing a red square on it? What was the purpose of doing that?
Hi kooter. The red square was just to show the new breaker I was installing. It 's probably very obvious what breaker slot I was replacing but I just wanted to be as clear as possible, sorry for confusion.
As for th e 40 C/B vs 50 C/B, I had two double poles I was using just to try to diagnose the issue. One was a 50A and one was a 40A. I'm seeing that I should stick with the 40A for the breaker since I am using a 8 AWG wire, and not a higher amperage correct?

​​​​​​​See PJmax's post #2. You cannot put a breaker in that location of the panel.

#8 Romex is only allowed to be protected by a 40 amp breaker max. You need to replace that breaker with a two pole 40 amp.
Thank you for verifying that PJmax was correct. I can easily replace the 40-amp, currently, I have a 50-A in there, but either is returnable. Is the reason it was to be 40A exact with the wire just the nature of how circuit breakers work, which prevents the amperage from going over their limit? And what brand of 40-A do I need? I have a Siemens, but I read there are some incompatibilities with different circuit breakers and I am kind of confused on that.
 
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Old 09-24-23, 11:51 AM
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And what brand of 40-A do I need? I have a Siemens, but I read there are some incompatibilities with different circuit breakers and I am kind of confused on that.
I would highly recommend installing only the same brand name branch circuit breaker as the brand name of the panel.

Personally, I would never use a circuit breaker made by another manufacturer in a panel.

There are two types of listings for residential plug-on type circuit breakers; "Specified" and "Classified".

“Specified" breakers are genuine, the ones approved by the manufacturer of an electrical panel as acceptable for installation in their panel. A specified breaker is almost always manufactured by the same company as the panel.

“Classified” circuit breakers, on the other hand, are made by one manufacturer to be installed as replacement breakers in a panel produced by another manufacturer. They are officially called “UL Classified,” meaning that Underwriters Laboratories has tested and approved them for installation in particular manufacturers' panel - often for companies that are no longer in business where replacement breakers would otherwise not be available.
.
 
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Old 09-24-23, 12:36 PM
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I'm seeing that I should stick with the 40A for the breaker since I am using a 8 AWG wire, and not a higher amperage correct?
That is correct.

Looking closer I see your panel is a Challenger. Challenger is no longer around and is now part of Eaton so the Eaton BR breakers are the correct breakers to use in your panel.
 
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Old 09-24-23, 04:16 PM
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Looking closer I see your panel is a Challenger. Challenger is no longer around and is now part of Eaton so the Eaton BR breakers are the correct breakers to use in your panel.
It seems that Challenger is no better than Federal Pacific (FPE) and Zinsco for being a fire and safety hazard.

During the 1980s and early 1990s, Challenger electrical panels were installed into hundreds of thousands of homes, but they were recalled in 1988. That recall specifically focused on Challenger panels with 15- and 20- ampere circuit breakers that have a mechanical component that can detach, leading to overheating, melting, and fire.

Unfortunately, problems with these panels continued even after Eaton/Cutler Hammer purchased Challenger. In 2014, Eaton/Cutler Hammer recalled 1,000 panels because their easily accessed components presented a shock risk.


You may have a Challenger electrical panel that you need to replace if you see:
  • Challenger stamped on the handle or door.
  • Challenger on the manufacturer’s label (often found on the inside of the panel door).
  • Circuits with yellow buttons and the word “test” on one side.


Challenger parts can show up in other electrical panels, including those made by GTE Slyvania and Zinsco.
 
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Old 09-24-23, 04:44 PM
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Challenger was at one time the same as FPE. I have a few older Challenger breakers that are the same design as the Stab-Lok FPE breakers. This panel is not that design. Salvayna also had the same design as FPE and Zinsco panels which were entirely different animal with different bus and breaker designs.

The panel in the pictures is the exact same design as the older Cutler Hammer BR panels which also have the same bus design as Square D Homeline, Siemens/ITE, GE, and others which I have already mentioned.
 
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Old 09-25-23, 11:14 AM
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That is correct.

Looking closer I see your panel is a Challenger. Challenger is no longer around and is now part of Eaton so the Eaton BR breakers are the correct breakers to use in your panel.
Thanks for the confirmation!
During the 1980s and early 1990s, Challenger electrical panels were installed into hundreds of thousands of homes, but they were recalled in 1988. That recall specifically focused on Challenger panels with 15- and 20- ampere circuit breakers that have a mechanical component that can detach, leading to overheating, melting, and fire.

Unfortunately, problems with these panels continued even after Eaton/Cutler Hammer purchased Challenger. In 2014, Eaton/Cutler Hammer recalled 1,000 panels because their easily accessed components presented a shock risk.
That is quite the history, thanks for informing me on this. For reference I did take pictures of the panel. It does say Eaton on the label inside the door:




 
 

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