What to do with a bunch of ground wires?


  #1  
Old 10-20-01, 02:20 PM
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I have a series of duplex outlets that function seperately. The top of each will function from a three-way switch. The bottom of each will be always on. My question is about all those ground wires. Do I pigtail them and use the other end on the outlet?

Second related question:

This is going to seem pretty elementary, but I am doing wiring that will be officially inspected and don't want to do it twice. I have the same question when running from outlet to outlet (regular wiring). What do I do with both the ground wires? Are those to be pigtailed? Can I wrap them around each other and connect just one end to the green screw on the outlet?

I just joined this site and it is definately bookmarked. What a great place to find answers!!!!

Thank-you
 
  #2  
Old 10-20-01, 02:37 PM
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Cool

There are some great pro electrical experts in here (I'm not one), but to answer your question, tightly twist together and pigtail and wirenut all bare ground wires, and connect them to the green ground screws on each outlet from one end to the other (from panel to last outlet).
Good luck!
Mike
 
  #3  
Old 10-20-01, 02:50 PM
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Are you wiring this with 12/3 or 14/3 cable? This would be the easiest and correct way to do it. But because you asked the question about "all those ground wires," I think you might be running two separate 12/2 or 14/2 cables. I would not recommend this, and it probably violates some codes anyway (there was a long discussion in this forum recently about two separate neutral wires from the same circuit in the same box).

My preferred way to handle the grounding wires is to get some of those green grounding nuts, the kind with the hole in the end. You cut all the grounding wires to the same length except one, which is longer. Feed the longer wire through the hole and twist all the grounding wires together. Then attach the end out the hole to the green grounding screw.

Remember, don't run separate cables to each box for the two halves of the receptacle, unless these two halves are on separate circuits.
 
  #4  
Old 10-20-01, 03:01 PM
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Let me explain a bit better. This is a family room that will not have any overhead lighting. There will be three outlets with lamps that will be controlled from either of two wall switches. The 3-way wire will run between the switches. The source will go from one switch to the top of the first outlet. Then to the top of the second and finish at the third.

The bottom of these outlets will always be hot. I am concerned that I might be trying to do something wrong here. It was looking like I would be using the same circuit (from the breaker box) for most of this room. That would mean that I might have one or two of the lower side of these outlets on the same circuit as the 3-way switches. Is this not permitted? In any event one of the lower outlets will be from a circuit in an adjoining room. Not sure now what to do with the other two.

To answer your question I am using #12 wire for all of this.
 
  #5  
Old 10-20-01, 04:03 PM
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You must be sure to understand that you have a rule in the NEC forbidding a circuit to be installed that does not have all the conductors of that same circuit in the same conduit of Sheathing. This means that you are not allowed to run a black and white and bare wire of one romex cable to feed the top receptacle and run a second black white and bare wire of a second Romex cable to feed the bottom half of a receptacle. You have two choices. You either must run a 12 or 14/3 with a black, red, white, and bare wire using the black to feed the top part of the receptacle and then thre red to feed the bottom part of the receptacle keeping all the conductors of that same circuit serving that duplex receptacle in the same Cable or conduit.

Now you do have a second option. If you ran two 12 or 14/2 cables to serve that one duplex receptacle having a black and white wire for the top half and a black and white wire for the bottom half you should be allowed to remove the tabs found between the screws on the sides of that duplex receptacle. If you remove both the brass tab and the silver tab you just separated that duplex receptacle into to single receptcles. This keeps the top and bottom separate from each other. In doing this wiring design with both the brass screw tab and the silver screw tab removed then you could not be connecting those two 12/2 cables to the same receptacle.

Be careful to know what is being said here. This does not include a daisy chain from receptacle to receptacle where one of those 12 or 14/2 cables is power in and the other is power out. This reply is only pertaining to running two cables to one device doing two diffent actions.

One more concern is if you are running 4 Romex cables in one device box and installing a device you are overfilling that device box in violation of box fill limits found in Article 370.

Hope this helps

Wg
 
  #6  
Old 10-21-01, 07:02 AM
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You guys are really GREAT!!!

I am not wanting to do anything dangerous or illegal, so I now have 50' of 12-3 to use to wire these duplex outlets. I also have the green twisty caps for all those ground wires (gonna go back and fix a bunch I already finished).

Now...when I was making my purchases the guy there explained how to run these wires. He said to run 12-2 from the source to the first switch. Then pigtail both the red and black from the 12-3 for the duplex outlets. (Is this where I should grab the power to go through the switch as well?). At the outlets consistently put the same color hot top or bottom. At the end of the daisy-chain I can keep using the constant on (bottom) wire to finish the last two duplex outlets (these are not controlled by the wall switch)

Does this sound about right?
 
  #7  
Old 10-21-01, 09:23 AM
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At the switch, make the following connections:
  • Connect the incoming power's 12/2 black wire to the 12/3's black wire, and to a pigtail. Connect the other end of the pigtail to one of the switch's brass screws.
  • Connect both white wires to each other.
  • Connect the 12/3's red wire to the other brass screw on the switch.
At each receptacle, do the following:
  • Break out the tab on the brass screw side. Leave the tab in place on the silver screw side.
  • Connect the two red wires to each other and to a pigtail. Connect the other end of the pigtail to the top brass screw.
  • Connect the two black wires to each other and to a pigtail. Connect the other end of the pigtail to the bottom brass screw.
  • Connect the two white wires to the two silver screws.
Of course, at the last receptacle you will only have one black, one red and one white, so you won't need the pigtail. And you already now know how to handle the grounding wires.

Clear enough?
 
  #8  
Old 10-22-01, 03:10 PM
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OK. This is where I am today.

I have daisy-chained the three outlets together with 12-3 wire...just as you suggested.

My new question is dealing with the switch. Since I am running this series of outlets from two switches, I have two sets of 12-3 wire at the first switch (one that goes to the first outlet, the other goes to the second switch) as well as 12-2 from the source. This looks like a powerful lot of wires to me. I get the idea about grouping the whites together. They don't get attached to the switch. The reds are pigtailed and attached to switch number one and the blacks are attached to the other brass screw.

The grounds are no problem--except--the electrical inspector was here today (for something else) and I casually asked him about grounding wires with the green wire-nuts. He said that all the ground wires are to be the same length. He said sometimes people try cutting all but one and wrapping them to the longer one. He won't pass that. He said keep all the wires the same length and wrap them that way.

I have not turned the power on, because it just doesn't look right. Should I be sending the 12-2 source-wire to switch two instead of having all this happening at switch one?

Question 2.

How could putting both hot wires on this switch allow the bottom half of my duplex outlets to be continuously hot? In my mind I am thinking that they will be activated at the switch.

Thank you for your help and patience.
 
 

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