Dishwasher breaker lock

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  #1  
Old 01-26-02, 03:58 PM
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Dishwasher breaker lock

Someone told me that I need a lock installed at my dishwasher breaker at my new main panel?

When did this become a required code issue?

What else requires a breaker lock?
 
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  #2  
Old 01-26-02, 04:27 PM
Jxofaltrds
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Ask "Someone" what is the reference.
Then shoot back with " It falls under 422.31 2002 NEC. " And tell "Someone" to read it.
 
  #3  
Old 01-27-02, 07:37 AM
Wgoodrich
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To be more exact try 422.34.C.

Jxofaltrds, I noticed your reply was very diplimatically said, truly smoother than I would have thought of saying it. I'll have to remember your smooth wording.

Wg
 
  #4  
Old 01-27-02, 02:34 PM
Jxofaltrds
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WG this is why I like these forums. It causes us to reread and reread and reread the code. We get to a point that proves our point and do not read further.



For the forum moderator. Thank you.
 
  #5  
Old 01-27-02, 03:24 PM
Wgoodrich
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Jxofaltrds, I have been in the NEC for over 30 years and most of those years have been considered by some as an expert. I don't even want to try to count how many times the guys making replies in this forum has had me regrouping on my original thoughts. That is what makes this forum so much of a service to all. The experts tend to relearn their thinking along with the DIYers. Greatest thing that I have seen on this forum is that everyone receives different views in a positive manner. Can't beat that but when you look back everyone posting questions are treated with respect they deserve also. Wish all life was like this forum, the world would be a better place.

Ain't America great, seems to be no end to the challenge or our brains.

Wg
 
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Old 01-27-02, 04:58 PM
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Pardon my thickness, Is the answer yes to the lock on the dishwasher breaker? And what other appliances require this?
 
  #7  
Old 01-27-02, 05:18 PM
Jxofaltrds
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No and to my"limited" knowledge I do not know what this is.
 
  #8  
Old 01-27-02, 06:01 PM
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Well, the answer is "no" to the lock on the breaker. The original passage that Jxofaltrds quoted makes it appear that the answer would be "yes". But the passage Wg quoted (which is referenced in the FPN of the other passage) says that the answer is "no" for a one-family dwelling. But of course, I don't really know precisely what the "unit switch with a marked-off position that is part of an appliance" is. I assume the dial or buttons on the dishwasher apply here. There is no definition of "unit switch" in the NEC's definitions section.
 
  #9  
Old 01-27-02, 06:44 PM
Jxofaltrds
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WG thank you .
I meant to say 422.34 however I was watching TV and went to left left column and not the right column.
This is a good example of why everything you read here should be double checked!!!
 
  #10  
Old 01-28-02, 06:50 PM
Wgoodrich
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A lock out comes in many forms. A disconnect with a bracket that you can pad lock the disconnect in the off position would be an approved lock out. There is a bracket that can be mounted on the breaker that is also listed and labled as a lockout. It is a rather large device that would prevent the panel door from closing and is only approved in industrial installations with an approved lock out tag off proceedure in writing for their trained personel only. It also take labeling each panel and piece of equipment.

There is a small bracket that mounts on the handle of a breaker to be used as a lock on for say a computer system. However many people try to use this scew on bracket as a lock off device. As far as I know this screw on temporary lockon device is not listed and labled as a lock off device.

John, a marked off unit switch can be a toggle switch, timer dial with a marked off position etc. Anything that is listed and labled for use to shut of all ungrounded conductors serving that appliance.

However if you will reread the main part that marked off position must be accompanied by an "other disconneting means" Part C says that in dwellings the "other disconnecting means" may be the breaker in the panel. It takes both to be present to be able to use a marked off unit switch as a disconnecting means.

Question just for giggles. The dishwasher timer will pull out allowing the dishwasher to shut off all ungrounded conductors and is commonly accepted to be used as the disconnecting means with a marked off position. Now for fun go to your dishwasher and look for the "marked off position" written on that dishwasher timer. Bet you don't see it.

Commonly accepted but is it totally correct to use that timer as the marked off unit switch?

Wg
 
  #11  
Old 01-28-02, 08:53 PM
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Just looked at my dishwasher. It has lots of buttons on it, but the word "off" does not appear on any of them. Of course all you have to do is open to door and it turns off, but there's nothing "marked" to say so. But I certainly have no lock on my dishwasher circuit breaker, and no other way to turn it off (e.g., no wall switch).
 
  #12  
Old 01-29-02, 03:01 PM
Wgoodrich
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John, what you just discribed is what is being approved most commonly. Yet the NEC rule requires that word "off" the way that I read it. You just confirmed my point. Small point but still against the rules as I read it.

Wg
 
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