Romex in Crawl space


  #1  
Old 09-03-01, 08:22 AM
Guest
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can someone give me a few ideas on how to put a roof over my deck. i have a brick ranch house with a deck right out the back door.what are some of my options for putting on a roof? help im new to the do it yourself.
 
  #2  
Old 02-04-02, 11:36 AM
kliot
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Romex in Crawl space

I need to run a 40 amp circuit for a oven and I was going to run 8/3 romex from the service enterance to the kitchen in the crawl space under the house. Someone told me that that won't meet code that it has to be in conduit, is this correct?

Thanks
 
  #3  
Old 02-04-02, 11:47 AM
A
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Hello Kliot,
You can check out the new NEC code changes but I believe the code changes do state one has to utilize conduit and does not allow to use the flex type.
 
  #4  
Old 02-04-02, 12:37 PM
T
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kliot

Romex does not require conduit when routed in a crawl space.
But Romex has to be routed through bored holes in the floor joists or use running boards. This answer is based on the 1999 NEC. You better check with the electrical inspector to make sure you're complying with local electrical codes.
 
  #5  
Old 02-04-02, 01:46 PM
resqcapt19
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thinman,
What about 336-6(c)?
Don(resqcapt19)
 
  #6  
Old 02-04-02, 02:15 PM
kliot
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What's 336-6(c)?

I thought it only had to be bored throuth the joists or on running boards if it was
 
  #7  
Old 02-04-02, 03:19 PM
Wgoodrich
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Cables containing not smaller than Two 6 awg or three 8 awg Romex cables may be installed on the lower edge and span from floor joist to floor joists without the requirment of a running board. 334.15.C in the 02 version and where resqcapt19 meantioned in the 99 NEC.

Hope this helps

Wg
 
  #8  
Old 02-04-02, 04:37 PM
Jxofaltrds
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This thread got me thinking. Read Article 382 in the 2002NEC.
Is this one confusing?
 
  #9  
Old 02-04-02, 06:37 PM
Wgoodrich
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Jxofaltrds, I am still digesting this but the following is my interpretation of branch circuit extensions as per the 02 NEC;

Branch circuit extensions are still allowed to be installed and within walls, crawl spaces, attics only if an equipment grounding conductor is ran to the panel of to the grounding electrode system creating a grounding system in that added receptacle on the load end of that extension.

The change in the wording that you are pointing out stops us from installing a 2 wire branch circuit exension all together with the exception that if this 2 wire branch circuit extension is installed on the surface and not in any attics, crawls, or inside any walls, etc. This 2 wire extension must be surface on the wall.

Boy try and sell that to the woman of the house. Looks like after this change you are going to run an equipment grounding conductor to any newly installed branch circuit extension.

However you still have the option to replace 2 prong receptacles with three prong receptacles using a GFI protective divice and without an equipment grounding conductor.

The above is how I have digested the words of those rules and any parallel info that I have seen.

Anyone else come up with something I am not seeing?

Wg
 
  #10  
Old 02-05-02, 08:09 AM
T
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A crawl space is considered an unfinished basement? Wow. I always thought they were two entirely different environments. I've been in some crawl spaces where the space between the bottom of the floor joist and ground is about two feet or less. Whereas a finished basement's clearance is 6 to 8 feet high. What's the NEC definition of an unfinished basement?
 
  #11  
Old 02-05-02, 03:10 PM
Wgoodrich
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Thinman, good point, I spaced the basement omitting the crawl space. Wonder why they did not include crawl spaces?

Wg
 
  #12  
Old 02-05-02, 03:37 PM
Jxofaltrds
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382 does not say branch circuit. It says NM exetension.
What is the def. of an extension?
Aren't we having fun???
 
  #13  
Old 02-05-02, 04:40 PM
Wgoodrich
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Jxofaltrds, 382.2 is an entirley new artcile that did not exist in the 99 NEC. You caught me offguard on that new rule. As I read the definition below I would have to say that the only two wire extension as per 382.2 that can now be installed if it remains within a room and is ran on the surface of the ceiling or wall. Boy I doubt many AHJ will eat that wiring design, let alone the lady of the house.

382.2 Definition.
Nonmetallic Extension. An assembly of two insulated conductors within a nonmetallic jacket or an extruded thermoplastic covering. The classification includes surface extensions intended for mounting directly on the surface of walls or ceilings.

NEC, boy what a challenge !

Wg
 
  #14  
Old 02-05-02, 04:54 PM
kliot
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The more I'm following this crazy thread that I seem to have started the more I'm thinking... Gas... I don't need an electric oven I could just go with gas and not have to worry about this electric thing...

Does anyone know what the code requirement is for gas line sizing? as best as I can tell 1/2" is acceptable but I'm thinking of going with a high btu Viking oven and considering the distance from the meter I'm concerned with dips in the flame...

Just kidding, I appreciate all the feedback from my original question, and I think it's safe to say that it's ok to go with Romex.
 
  #15  
Old 02-05-02, 05:01 PM
Jxofaltrds
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Now that I started something. It says 'An assembly of two insulated conductors ". What if it an 8-3wg?
 
  #16  
Old 02-05-02, 06:13 PM
Wgoodrich
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Jxofaltrds, you do stir things up. Now I am going in circles in my mind and getting dizzy ! Ha Ha.

In the rule it says not smaller than. I would think that an 8/3wGrnd would be bigger than an 8/3 without Grnd. But there I go thinking again. Thiking seems to get me up a creek by myself everytime. Just need to remember to add a spare paddle would help a lot at times on that creek. Knew I was forgetting something when I left up that creek again.

Wg
 
  #17  
Old 02-05-02, 06:25 PM
Jxofaltrds
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WG I don't see the size reference. Didn't want to take the only paddle you have. I just want opinions on 382. Got to love the code.
 
  #18  
Old 02-09-02, 06:05 AM
Wgoodrich
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Jxofaltrds, I just got back from an IAEI regional convention of the 2002 NEC changes. I presented a question asking about branch circuit extensions and specifically asked what 382 nonmetallic extensions was pertaining to if not branch circuit extensions.

The reply from the UL and NEC reps was that 250.130 is the article you must refer to considering branch circuit extensions. They also said that you must install an equipment grounding conductor to any point along the grounding electrode system. [ground rod, within 5' of metal pipe in contact with earth, within the main service panel].

The went further to say that this rule 250.130 requires this equipment grounidng conductor to be installed because this is a new installation and not a receptacle replacement.

It caused quite a discussion but the idea of installing a 2 prong receptacle was discounted by the experts committee saying that this was a new installation and not a replacement. New installations require the equipment grounding conductor. 2 prong receptacles was not an option alllowed by 250.130. Therefor the use of a GFI protection in place of the equipment grounding conductor as per 406.3.D.2 is not allowed to be used because this option was not listed in the original branch circuit extension rule of 250.130.

Your favorite rule 382 does not apply to branch circuit extensions in any manner.

When questioned what 328 nonmetallic extensions was referring to the panel came up with an example of an old bull dog panel that can be extended by a nonmetallic extension. They went further to say that a nonmetallic extension was a product listed and labled and 382 was not referring in any manner to branch circuit extensions but only to a product that was a nonmetallic extension. Their last added statement was that the words branch circuit is not present anywhere in 382 and therefor did not referr to branch circuit extensions.

By the way I got credit and a standing ovation for such a worthwhile and challenging question submitted. Therefor I stood in my name thinking of you as I received the credit for being so smart. You can say thank you anytime for taking credit for asking a question that you asked. Sorry, I just didn't have time to explain it was your question to start with. So now I am saying to you BOY DID YOU HAVE A GOOD QUESTION that I stole from you ! Boy was that fun working in cognito ! Ha Ha !

Jxofaltrds I want you to know I did have a short twinge of a guilty feeling when they were praising my posting such a challenging question but only when I was thinking of you then it passed.

We had fun for a while though ?

Hope this helps

Wg
 
  #19  
Old 02-10-02, 05:19 AM
Jxofaltrds
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WG the important thing is that you got the answer.
I only take credit for the stupid questions.
The good questions are devine intervention. So you did not steal anything.
Thank you for the good info.
 
 

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