Attn: WG, generic questions

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  #1  
Old 03-04-02, 07:30 PM
J
Joe_F
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Attn: WG, generic questions

Hello WG:

Hope all is well. By the way, the laundry outlet is working fine. No problems since replacing that outlet that fell apart in three pieces in my hand when changing it!

I was in my garage today and noticed (for real) some loose electrical boxes (mounted on the wall). I decided to rectify them.

1) I cut the power, took the face plate off and found that box #1 had a loose conduit clamp. I chose to anchor the box into the sheetrock wall with some anchors as I didn't like the way it was orginally done. Ok.

2) In the box was a green grounding wire, which naturally goes from the green screw to the box. On this particuar instance, it was wrapped around one of the mounting screws. Proper? Been like that for years. If not, where should it go?

3) Generally, when you buy an outlet or a switch, I notice you get these cardboard nuts that hold the screws in the package when they are display packaged for instance. I had some old Sears outlets (new ones never used) that are Levitons in disguise. They were packaged this way. Do they serve any purpose in the installation? I have seen no record of them in any installation.
instructions.

Funny thing is that Eagle Electric (who makes electrical devices) is STILL in Long Island City (Queens) NY where I work, and Leviton is in Little Neck, which is Eastern Queens. I have noticed that Eagle seems to make more products here in the USA.

I still have to read up on how to put a 20A circuit in place for my compressor, but that's another time, another post.

Thanks for the insight. All's well, just a question on my part.
 
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  #2  
Old 03-05-02, 05:58 PM
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I believe the cardboard nuts are to hold the screws in place when the device is not attached or being removed from a box.
Although you are connecting the ground wire to the box and green screw on the device, the cardboard nuts hamper a possibly good extra ground conenction from the yolk of the device to the metal box (I know you have a metal box in Queens, NYC!)
 
  #3  
Old 03-05-02, 08:23 PM
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Joe_F
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Thanks Ron. Makes sense.

Actually, I would have thought the box interior would have a place to put the green wire. I was a bit suprised to find it wrapped around the mounting screw and on the wallplate screw of another. Been like that since 1968 . Perhaps it's ok, but it seemed hokey to me.

BTW: I know you helped on the other quandry I had with the laundry room outlet. Turned out to be an outlet that broke in three pieces. All that research for five minutes worth of work You don't know how happy I was to see it was so simple. Lol!

Thanks again!
 
  #4  
Old 03-11-02, 08:37 AM
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Joe_F

You're actually not supposed to use a mounting screw as the ground. The back of the box has at least one threaded hole. You can buy green ground screws at your home center. The hole is tapped for them. Alternatively, they also sell a clip with a screw attached that goes on the front edge of the box. Don't know if they are approved for NYC, tho'.
 
  #5  
Old 03-11-02, 10:44 AM
W
Wgoodrich
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Actually there is what is called a grounding type receptacle that has a spring loaded clip that comes with the receptacle. When the grounding type receptacle is installed the spring loaded clip make a sure connection to the steel box. You then may omit the grounding conductor connectcion to the green screw of this receptcle. This type device is only allowed if the box is a surface mounted metal box. If you are using romex and the self grounding receptacle then you must connect the bare wire to a green grounding screw installed in a threaded hole in the back of the steel box, then the spring loaded clip on the grounding style receptacle will bond the box to the yoke of the receptacle.

If you are using conduit as your equipment grounding conductor then all you would have to do is install the grounding style receptacle without any further concern of pigtails or other grounding connections in that steel box.

If you are using a normal receptacle the green grounding screw on the receptacle must be used to connect the bare or green equipment grounding pigtal. If you are using a normal box with metal conduit as the equipment grounding conducture then you only have to install a green or bar grounding conductor from the steel box to the green screw of the receptacle.

If you are installing Romex then you must install a bare or green bonding jumper pigtail to both the steel box and the green screw of the receptacle from the bare equipment grounding conductor of the Romex.

At no time was it ever approved to just wrap a grounding wire around a device mounting screw or squeeze it between the recepacle plat and the box. The NEC requires the equipment gounding conductor to be connected to a green grounding screw and has for many years.

Hope this helps

Wg
 
  #6  
Old 11-29-02, 09:34 AM
J
Joe_F
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WG:

I was looking through some old posts and came across this one....

The outlet in question is in my garage (was there in 1968 when the house was built) and to my knowledge, was the original outlet and had never been changed until i took it out. I didn't like the fact it was painted over and it looked terrible, so I had been slowly changing them around to freshen them up.

It is metal conduit and a surface box (mounted on the sheetrock). It had this green wire wrapped around the screw.

Are you stating that the green wire is not needed? I do not recall any other green wires in any other receptacles in the house....for instance, the laundry room one (the box is mounted in the wall) didn't have any green wire there. That was the one with the broken outlet. I have fixed it and it's been fine ever since.

I'm just curious if I should be looking for these green wires throughout the fixtures in the house. The garage has surface mounted boxes (on the wall). The rest of the house has ones mounted below the wall surface.

The guy that did the electrical work this past month in the garage commented on how neat and clean the panel was compared to my neighbor's who has had "a lot of hands in it" in the past (before he bought the house).

What does this grounding type receptacle look like compared to an "ordinary" one and can I just install it in place of what's there now and not have to worry about that green wire?

I put the green wire back the way I found it in the box with the original outlet but surely want to do it the right way.

Thanks,
 
  #7  
Old 11-29-02, 05:32 PM
W
Wgoodrich
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If you have a surface mounted steel box that is grounded by a bare or green wire to the green screw in the back of your box or if you have metal conduit that is your grounding path from the panel then you may use a self grounding receptacle and omit the bare or green wire connecting to the green screw of the receptacle.

If you have a recessed box you are required to connect a green or bare grounidng wire to the green screw of the receptacle if you have three prong receptacles.

If you have a two wire system without green or bare wires then you must use either two prong receptacles or three prong receptacles that are with GFI protection.

Do you have your metal boxes grounded and just don't have the jumper pigtail from that steel box to the receptacle, or do you have a metal conduit being used as your grounding path connected unbroken from the panel to the metal receptacle box, or do you only have a two wire system?

By the way I am looking for an owner's manual for a 99 Chevey Z71 4 x 4 Pick up 1/2 ton. Know where I can link to that owners manual on the web?


Curious

Wg
 
  #8  
Old 11-30-02, 09:01 AM
J
Joe_F
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The owner's manual is a cinch. I'm able to get them as far back as my 1979 Trans Am and 1980 Trans Am new . I even gave one of the literature guys I buy from a tip of where to get the manuals. LOL.

Helm Inc (GM's original publisher), www.helminc.com,

It will depend on which K Series (4 WD) you have. (C is 2WD) . You have a K1500 model (K=4WD, 1500 is 1/2 ton payload). The Silverado (Chevy) and Sierra (GM) are the new "BK6" platform, but General Motors was still selling the old (regular CK) along side it. Most times, you will need the portfolio. That will have all of the other needed books (maintenance schedules, emission warranties, etc).

They have some duplication here (they are always a bit confused), so call them to confirm which one you need at

1-800-782-4356. That is their phone #, toll free.

Are you just looking for the owner's manual for reference to have or to try to figure something out (such as fluid capacity)? If the latter, cut and paste the autolibrary.org link (as I have it) in my signature file and that's a free online Chilton manual for all to use. It is very good.

Qty
1999 C/K Full Size Pickup Owner Manual
Price: $25.00 In Stock
(English, Paper, C9904)


Qty
1999 Chevy Silvarado Owner Manual
Price: $25.00 In Stock
(English, Paper, C9915)


Qty
1999 Ck Full Size Pickup Yukon Suburban And Tahoe Owner Manual Portfolio
Price: $35.00 In Stock
(English, Paper, 15005788)


Qty
1999 GMT800 Owner Manual Portfolio
Price: $35.00 In Stock
(English, Paper, 15728492)


Qty
1999 GMT800 Owner Manual Portfolio
Price: $35.00 In Stock
(English, Paper, 15728501)
------------

The service panel is in my garage and the subject outlet is in there too. Metal conduit is used on all exterior surfaces to house the wires in the garage. This subject garage outlet and the service box are maybe 5 feet apart. The laundry room unit had only two wires going to the outlet (three prong outlet used here).

In other words, I have metal surface boxes, with metal conduit connecting each, and I'm reasonably sure they all run to service panel (since the garage has the panel). Everything exposed is metal conduit. I do not know what is behind the wall, I didn't pay much attention while watching the guy when he had the panel cover off (to see how the original '68 wiring was done---the guy said it was all done nicely and very well).

I know that there is is a screw terminal on the receptacle for the green wire, but where in the box does it go? Is there a respective green terminal screw on the box it goes to?

I take it the self grounder has something else other than the green screw terminal. Do you have a photo of each?

Thanks!
 

Last edited by John Nelson; 12-01-02 at 09:38 AM.
  #9  
Old 11-30-02, 11:14 AM
W
Wgoodrich
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The steel boxes have a threaded hole in the back of hte box where you must buy a green grounidng screw and install a green wire to that box.

Sounds like you ahve an equipment grounding conductor in the form of your metal EMT taking equipment grounding to that steel box bonding that steel box. If so then all you need is a green bonding jumper if recessed box from that threaded hole in the back of that steel box jumped with a green wire from there to the green screw of your receptacle.

If you have a surface mounted steel box then you must use the self grounidng receptacle without any green bonding jumpers reqired. A self grounding receptacle will have a spring loaded clip on the yoke of the receptacle that ensures contact between that receptacle yoke and the steel box. It is just a spring steel clip that slides over the yoke by the manufacturer to create the self grounding receptacle.

Hope this helps

Wg
 
  #10  
Old 12-03-02, 10:04 AM
J
Joe_F
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I'll look for the self grounding receptacle the next time I'm at Home Depot. Or I might have new receptacles I bought that have them already. In such case, I'll install those .

Thanks---did you get the owner's manual?
 
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