Extend 240 volt outlet

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  #1  
Old 06-26-02, 10:03 PM
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Move 240 volt outlet

I have a 240 volt outlet for my kitchen stove that I do not use and want the add an air conditioner in the frontroom.

Can I remove the outlet, install a junction box then run conduit 30 feet to the frontroom with a tandem plug for the air conditioner?

Air conditioner is 1230 watts cooling. Asks for 15 watt time delay breaker.

Circuit breaker for kitchen stove is (2) 20 watt breakers.

Sure hate to burn down the house trying to keep me and the puppy cool.



Thanks for any advice.
 

Last edited by Baldwin; 06-27-02 at 09:53 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-27-02, 04:12 PM
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Wgoodrich
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You concern me with your statement that a kitchen stove is on a 20 amp breaker.

What size wire is connected to this kitchen stove and is it with a receptacle or direct connect.

The reason I am questioning your kitchen stove on a 20 amp breaker is that kitchen stoves normally takes a minimum of a40 amp breaker.

Is this a counter mounted cook top or a free standing range?

Wg
 
  #3  
Old 06-27-02, 08:39 PM
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Question Move 240 volt receptacle

I will try and explain a little bit better than my first post. Sorry!

A 1975 mobile home with everything wired for electric; range, hot water heater and dryer.

I converted everything to natural gas so I have lots of breakers not in use.

The kitchen range has two 20 amp breakers, which I don't use.

Bottom line: is it safe to remove range receptacle, install a junction box then add 30 feet #12 wire to the frontroom for my air conditioner? The AC uses 1230 watts when cooling.

One more thing, the air conditioner calls for 15 amp time delay breakers. Can I just leave the two 20 amp breakers in there?

Any help would be appreciated, its getting really warm in here.

Thanks, Bob
 
  #4  
Old 06-27-02, 10:17 PM
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Wgoodrich
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Sorry I can't help you with the info you provided. I suspect you are misidentifying the 20 amp 220 breaker serving an electric range. A 20 amp breaker would not hold on an electric range.

Best bet is to fish a new 12/2 wire from the panel to the air conditioner and install a 220 volt 20 amp receptacle. Mixing large cables with small cables is an invite for mistakes to be made by others in the future. I am suspecting this existing is inviting you to make a mistake now.

Confirm what size conductor you are wanting to tap onto. I would not tap to serve the a/c unit I would run a new circuit. Teh new circuit would be easier and faster than trying a tap to a large wire.

I question that you have properly identified a 20 amp breaker serving a 40 amp rated kitchen range.

Be Careful

Wg
 
  #5  
Old 06-28-02, 07:03 AM
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There may exist 240-volt 20-amp ranges. They probably don't have four burners, but I think they exist.
 
  #6  
Old 06-28-02, 07:22 AM
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"The kitchen range has two 20 amp breakers, which I don't use."

TWO>TWO>TWO 20 AMP BREAKERS

The dryer has TWO 30 amp breakers and the water heater has TWO 20 amp breakers.

The breakers have a wire through the handles so both breakers work as one, you cannot move one without the other.

 
  #7  
Old 06-28-02, 07:57 AM
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Two 20-amp breakers is still 20 amps. All 240-volt circuits have two breakers, but you can't add their values.
 
  #8  
Old 06-28-02, 10:32 AM
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I think you need only one breaker. I am sure your unit runs on 110 being only 1250 watts. Run a new wire and in a mobile home that shouldnt be too difficult.
 
  #9  
Old 06-28-02, 11:06 AM
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Wgoodrich
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What size wire is connected to that existing 20 amp range branch circuit.

Wg
 
  #10  
Old 06-28-02, 11:25 AM
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Question

Let me take a moment to wipe the seagull droppings off my face.


Looked behind the kitchen range.....NO receptacle! Uffdaaaa Don't know what those two 20 amp breakers are for, they are off.

Sooooo I guess I'll have to run a new wire right from the breaker box.

AC specs: plug type: tandem
Rated amps (receptacle) 15
Volts, Ttl. Connected load 230/208
Watts (cooling) 1230/1200
Amps (cooling)5.8/6.2

Guess I will have to buy two 15 amp breakers for Federal Pacific box.

75 feet 14/2 with ground wire

1 tandem receptacle

70' conduit

How does that sound guys?? Thank you very much trying to explain all this to a duffasssss.

What the heck is 230/208 volts? I thought it was either 120 or 240?

Thanks again!
 
  #11  
Old 06-28-02, 11:46 AM
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DaveB.inVa
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The 208v rating means that your unit would be suitable for use on a 208v Wye three phase system but only using 2 of the hots (this gives you 208v single phase).

A Wye system such as this will have 3 hots each with 120v between them and the neutral (grounded conductor) but between any of the hots to another hot you will have 208v. This comes about because you have a little bit of Trig in there. Each of the phases reach peak 120 degrees in revolution after the last one peaks. This will produce a rotating magnetic field which is the real goal. Since their is an angle of 120 degrees in there you have to figure for it. (360 degrees rotation in a circle / 3 = 120 degrees)

Imagine from your fingertip to the center of your body is 120v and from the other fingertip to the center of your body is 120v.

Now with your arms spread wide (180 degrees apart) you will add them up and will have 240v from fingertip to fingertip.

Ok now slowly bring your arms closer together until the angle between them is 120 degrees. You will still have 120v between each fingertip and the center of your body but from fingertip to fingertip you will now have 208v.

An easier way to think of it is line voltage is 1.732 times phase voltage. 1.732 is the square root of 3
 
  #12  
Old 06-28-02, 11:50 AM
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I understand this to be a mobile home. Mobile homes are regulated by article 550 of the NEC. The NEC forbids wiring in a mobile home unless you obain a ruling from your local electrical inspector. The inspector has the authority to rule that you are not allowed to do any wiring to a mobile home or may rule that you may totally rewire a mobile home. This depends on your local ruling by your inspector per the NEC.

If you install wiring in a mobile home you may use Romex instead of conduit. YOu must use a single unit as a breaker that is a double pole 20 amp breaker. You are not allowed to use two single 120 volt breakers to make up a 220 volt branch circuit.

You may install either metal clad or Romex from that panel to the receptacle at the a/c unit. YOu are not allowed to install a duplex receptacle to serve that a/c unit. YOu are required to install a single receptacle that is rated 20 amp 220 volts matching the plug of the cord on the a/c unit.

You may install either Romex or MC cable with a black white and bare conductor in that cable. IN the panel connect the black and white wires to the double pole 20 amp 220 volt breaker. Then connect the bare wire to the grounding bar of your panal.

Then you may fish your wire down the wall into the crawl space of the mobile home and across that crawl space ot the location of the ac unit. Then fish up the wall for a recessed receptacle installation or through the floor for a surface mount installation of you single 20 amp 220 volt receptacle. Do not use a duplex receptacle for your ac unit.

Then connect the black and white wires to the two copper screws of that single 20 amp or 15 amp 220 volt receptacle that matches the plug configuration of that ac unit and then connect the bare wire to the green screw of that receptacle.

Plug in your ac unit and turn on your breaker. Then test with a voltage tester to ensure you have a 220 volt reading on the volt meter. Then turn on your ac unit and enjoy.

Your question about 230 / 208 can be answered by saying the 230 volt is a medium voltage range of a single phase 220 volt circuit and the 208 volt is a rating of a three phase commercial setting using a wye transformer basis creating 110/208 volts. This is saying your ac unit is approved for use in either a single phase or three phase wiring system that creates from 208 volts to 230 volts.

Hope this helps

Wg
 
  #13  
Old 06-28-02, 12:02 PM
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Very astute Wg. It's always difficult to detect when the infomation we are working with is incorrect.
 
  #14  
Old 06-28-02, 12:23 PM
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John it is hard to read between their lines at times. Problem is when one of us questions what is being said it is hard to get them to take a second look to ensure what the think is what it is. Kind of an act of human nature. I have seen you second guess what was being said in the same manner several times in the past too seeing something between the lines I didn't see. We all work as a team and then we still miss some things.

Wg
 
  #15  
Old 06-28-02, 01:19 PM
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Thank you Wg & John, I'm catching on and I also took out the books. About time...

I understand about the double breaker so as not to be on the same buss but it seems to me I read something about "length of run" governing wire size. Can't find it now.

In my garage I ran about 50' of 10/2 just in case Santa brings me a compressor some day.

Will #12 wire be big enough for the approximate 70' run?

Thanks again, you guys are great.
 
  #16  
Old 06-28-02, 03:10 PM
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For a given load, wire size is determined by ampacity and voltage drop. Ampacity is determined by size of wire, type of wire, number of conductors in parallel, and temperature. Voltage drop is determined by type of wire, length of wire, and expected amperage.

Okay, enough with the theory. In runs of less than 100 feet, the wire size that is sufficient for ampacity is almost always also sufficient for voltage drop.

I'm not sure we're still talking about the air conditioner, but if we are, 12-gauge copper wire will be more than enough for 70 feet of run carrying 5.8 amps.
 
  #17  
Old 06-28-02, 05:56 PM
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Thank you gentlemen, I have printed out the last few posts which will help me along with my project.

Now if I can get ahold of the inspector.

Thank you very much.

It is now 94 degrees in here and my computer is not happy.

 
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