Dewalt Miter Saw 10" -> 12" ???


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Old 03-16-06, 07:42 AM
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Question Dewalt Miter Saw 10" -> 12" ???

Hi. In this post, I outlined how I came to buy a Dewalt 10" miter saw:
http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=254379

Now, I'm thinking that I bought the right brand, but the wrong size - I think I need a 12". 12" miter saws are pricey, but if I can't use the 10" for a lot of my projects, the 12" would be worth it. The folks at Lowes will take back the 10" so that I can buy the 12". Now, I'm trying to figure out which one.

Regarding needs... In the last few weeks, after having some other projects out of the way, I looked closer at my projects. Although the 10" would handle the 2X4 and 2X6 boards pretty well, most of the upcoming projects involve lots of 2X8, some 2X10 and a few 2X12 boards. Some examples...

-- I volunteered to help a local group rebuild a local park's elevated walk ways (several hundred feet long). They will be built with 2X8 and 2X10 boards.

-- A potting shed for the wife. Lots of 2X4's and 2X6's, but some 2X8's and some 2X10's.

-- Joist work - The builder screwed up the joists in our house. Most are not blocked (some are, which is weird). To reduce flex and warping, I want to add blocks where I can access them in the crawl space (probably about 60-80 blocks). They are 2X12 material.

Since I like the Dewalt saws, I looked at those. The DW716 is slightly more expensive than the DW715, so I ruled out the DW715. That left two options:

DW716 Double Bevel CMS:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...716&lpage=none

DW718 Double Bevel SCMS:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...718&lpage=none

The DW718 is bigger, heavier and pricier than the DW716. But it looks like it's much more flexible.

I appreciate any feedback, but I really need feedback on two issues relating to slider vs non-slider. First, in the real world, is a slider that much more flexible? Second, other than price and size, are there any drawbacks to a slider over a non-slider.

Thanks in advance,

Dan.

p.s. Yes, I know these 12" buggers are pricey compared to a 10" one. But if I can save time and hassle, it will be worth it.
 
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Old 03-16-06, 03:07 PM
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Dan: I can't vouch for the Dewalt line, although alot of guys use them on our sites. I use a Bosch 12" and love it. The 12" saw is quite a bit more versatile, and from the work you say you have coming up, you will need one. You can cut 4x4 on bevel, 2x8's in one pass, but come with the price tag. Not only in the outset price, but blades will run from $40 to $70. The trade off is worth the cost, believe me.
 
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Old 03-16-06, 06:16 PM
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Again I have to agree with Chandler, 12" is much more versatile. I can't comment specifically on the saws your looking at, but, as I had stated in:

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=249371

the Dewalt rep told me that the Delta, Porter Cable, and Dewalt were all manufactured in the same facility. At least referring to the 12" Twin-Laser compound miter saws. I don't know how many of their products are made this way, but it may mean you dont have to buy the Dewalt name, to get the same quality.

You are getting the Twin-Lasers aren't you?

BTW, you can get a 12" saw to (almost completely) cut a 2x10 (on a 90 degree) by lifting it up after the initial cut. No chance on a 2x12, you have to go to a slider then and that's alot more money...

Snarksdad
 
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Old 03-16-06, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by snarksdad
Again I have to agree with Chandler, 12" is much more versatile. I can't comment specifically on the saws your looking at, but, as I had stated in:

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=249371

the Dewalt rep told me that the Delta, Porter Cable, and Dewalt were all manufactured in the same facility. At least referring to the 12" Twin-Laser compound miter saws. I don't know how many of their products are made this way, but it may mean you dont have to buy the Dewalt name, to get the same quality.

You are getting the Twin-Lasers aren't you?

BTW, you can get a 12" saw to (almost completely) cut a 2x10 (on a 90 degree) by lifting it up after the initial cut. No chance on a 2x12, you have to go to a slider then and that's alot more money...

Snarksdad
Actually, I'm thinking seriously about the DW718 - 12" slider. It doesn't come with a Laser, but there is a laser add-on, which I'll get. I think the extra flexibility of the slider will be worth it. Now I'll just have to make sure that I fit it on to my shelves.

Regards,

Dan.
 
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Old 03-16-06, 08:27 PM
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Unless...

I change my mind by this Saturday, I'm going to buy the Dewalt 12" slider. It's pricey at $650, but you can get a $50 gift Lowes card now. So that brings the net cost back to $600 - pricey, but a little less painful And, it's got the flexibilty that I need.

What finally sold me was that it's very compact for it's size. I have a storage space problem. When you bring the Dewalt slider to full left miter and folded down, it's only 17" tall and 21" deep. It will fit on my Gorilla rack shelves easily.

The Hitachi 12" slider by comparison is at least 25" tall and about 25-28" deep when folded - much bigger.

Overall, I liked the ease of use features of the Dewalt better also. The digital readouts on the Hitachi looked nice, but I didn't like some of the manual features quite as well as the Dewalt.

Also, someone in another thread (maybe another forum) said that the Dewalt slider had lot's of sticktion... That it took a bump to get slider to move. At least with the unit on the Lowes store, I found it a bit stiff, but very smooth. I.e., it didn't slide like it was "greased", but I didn't find any sticktion and the motion was smooth.

The Hitachi by comparison had no sticktion but was stiff too. But, the sliding sliding motion wasn't quite as smooth as the Dewalt.

OTOH, I found the vertical motion of the Dewalt to be a bit stiffer and a little less smooth than the Hitachi. Not bad, but not quite as good.

Well, I'm off to Lowes this Saturday to pick up my new "beast". Thanks for the feedback; it helped clarify my thinking.

Regards,

Dan.
 
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Old 03-17-06, 03:44 AM
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Shelves? You're gonna put it on your shelves? That saw rates at least a Silver plated pedestal.....
:-)
 
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Old 03-17-06, 04:02 AM
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Dan: I agree with Snarksdad, go to the orange big box, spend another $99 and get the break down Ridgid rolling saw stand. I use a Delta stand for my Bosch, but it cost more. The Ridgid looked pretty good for the money. We need to stop this, as Rapture is probably turning green at this point.
 
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Old 03-17-06, 05:56 AM
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Talking Shelves are for storage. For use...

I'm using the smaller Delta miter saw work stand:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...030&lpage=none

At first, I was hesitant to buy the Delta stand thinking that it wouldn't be stable. It turns out that it is very stable with the 10" Dewalt saw. Since the 12" slider weighs about 60% more (53 lbs vs 33 lbs), I'm hoping that it can handle the weight.

The Delta has one very nice feature. The saw is permanently mounted to wooden bases. And then the bases "snap" on to the rail stands. It is very easy to get off and on, and the wooden bases have wide-spread rubber feet on which it rests while on the storage shelf.

Regarding storage location, it will proudly sit about waist height on the first storage shelf you see when entering my garage. This also makes it VERY easy to set up or pop into my car trunk.

The Dewalt Miter Saw Workstation looks very nice, but it was twice the price.

Best regards,

Dan.
 
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Old 03-17-06, 01:20 PM
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I agree that the 10 or 12" sliders are the way to go on a miter saw. THat being said, some of the jobs you mention are cutting framing lumber. For these, I would just cut it with my circular saw. With a little practice, you can get cuts that are very straight (and I think its quicker too). Also, I'd rather save that $40+ miter blade for the cuts that require tighter tolerances, like trim and miters.

Regardless, enjoy the new saw!
 
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Old 03-17-06, 09:57 PM
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The fun never stops...

Well, there's been another change. I spent a lot of time reading and I noticed something funny about the Dewalt 12" reviews. When I read the Dewalt 12" slider reviews, the vast majority were very positive.

Since the DW718 is the new model of the famous DW708, I reasoned that it would be even better. But after careful reading, I finally realized that the DW708 is the one getting the great reviews. I started noticing that the new DW718 was getting negative reviews.

So now I'm back to square two. Square one would be no options. Square two is a Makita LS1013L. Now I just have to find one. The local Lowes no longer carries them and HomeDepot website says that they are out of stock!

So tomorrow will be a fun day. I'm going to try to get my money back from Lowes WITHOUT buying a miter saw from them. Then I have to track down a new Makita. Stay tuned.

You know, I wouldn't be blame anybody if they posted this: :weird:

Regards,

Dan.
 
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Old 03-19-06, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by snarksdad
the Dewalt rep told me that the Delta, Porter Cable, and Dewalt were all manufactured in the same facility. At least referring to the 12" Twin-Laser compound miter saws. I don't know how many of their products are made this way, but it may mean you dont have to buy the Dewalt name, to get the same quality.

Having spent most of my career as a Quality Engineer, I would say this:

Just because 3 or 4 brand name products are all made by the same manufacture, do not assume they all have the same quality. Quality is a component of manufacturing. It costs money. Higher quality levels make the price of the product higher. Lots of different standards of quality exist. That having been said, please realize that one product line in a factory may build to one quality standard while another builds to a higher (or lower) standard.

Good example: A dealer sells a Frigidaire icebox at say, $1200. YOu look at it. You see the same model at Sears. Also with the Frigidaire name on it. Same features, but the price is $400 less. Upon further inspection, you notice the part numbers of the two are not the same, and even the full model number is slightly different. That's because the product Sears buys from Firgidaire is built to a lower quality level than the one the dealer buys. There's more to it than that, but like always, let the buyer beware.
 
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Old 03-19-06, 10:01 PM
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Talking The saga ends! (I hope.)

Hi. Well I think the saga has ended. I bought a Bosch 4410L (laser) 10", Dual Bevel Miter Saw from http://www.westerntool.com/. Here's the 4410L saw page:

http://www.westerntool.com/product.htm?pid=454736

First a word about Western Tool... I don't know if you've heard of them but I had not until I looked in the yellow pages on Saturday Morning. I called them an asked, "Do you have the Makita LS1030?" He said, "Yes". Then I asked about the Bosch in a 10 and 12" model. "Yes." Hmmm... How about the Dewalt DW718? "Yes." At this point thought I heard an unstated, "Duh!" behind the answer. So, I said, I'll be right out.

About 20 minutes later, I walked in the store and injured my jaw. (Jaw slammed to the ground when I looked at the best tool store I'd ever been in.) Then I got my second surprise - their prices were about the same as Lowes and Home Depot!

It turns out that they have 70 stores nation-wide and specialize in contractor-grade and higher tools. For Lowes and Home Depot, the Dewalt is the high-end brand. For Western, it's their low-end brand.

They had the Makita, the Dewalt and both the Bosch 10 and 12" miter saws set up with blades in them. I was able to play with them side by side for an hour, and even fired them up (noise, vibration, etc.).

To make a long story short, I was extremely impressed wih the Bosch 4410. It should handle all of my large board needs and still deal nicely with small trim mitering. When looking at the Dewalt DW718 alone, it looked great. When compared side by side with the Bosch's, it was clear that the Bosch miter saws were higher grade.

I set it up today and it's a very nice handling machine.

Here are two reviews:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/tooltest.asp (Click on the August 2004 "CLICKING HERE" link). WARNING - 17Mb PDF download.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/bosch4410rvu.html

Many thanks for all of the great feedback. If anyone is interested, I'll post more of my impressions of the 4410 and provide some pics.

Best regards,

Dan.
 
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Old 03-20-06, 07:05 AM
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Yes Dan, the saga has ended
The Bosch sliders are the regret-proof purchase
They may have more features than you need/use
But you will never "wish I'd...."

And Western Tool is certainly The Best small tool chain around
They don't mind you firing them up, in fact, they seem to encourage it
The tools are not the de-spec'd one found at the bigboxes, and the help is usually helpful, and not afraid to ask another if the don't have the answer (rather than make one up)

The best way to shop for a tool is to try them
Regardless of what anyone else's opinion of them is, if you don't like the feel, you won't enjoy using them
WT seems to appreciate this

When tried side by side the differences become apparent, and one can decide for oneself if they are worth the money
Also any quirks which a user may or may not like can show up rather quickly

I also have a review from Workbench if you'd like, but it seems that will be unnecessary, as you have reached the same conclusion they did

Enjoy your beautiful (and a graceful top quality tool like that is a thing of beauty) saw
 
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Old 03-20-06, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by slickshift
Yes Dan, the saga has ended
The Bosch sliders are the regret-proof purchase
They may have more features than you need/use
But you will never "wish I'd...."

And Western Tool is certainly The Best small tool chain around
They don't mind you firing them up, in fact, they seem to encourage it
The tools are not the de-spec'd one found at the bigboxes, and the help is usually helpful, and not afraid to ask another if the don't have the answer (rather than make one up)

The best way to shop for a tool is to try them
Regardless of what anyone else's opinion of them is, if you don't like the feel, you won't enjoy using them
WT seems to appreciate this

When tried side by side the differences become apparent, and one can decide for oneself if they are worth the money
Also any quirks which a user may or may not like can show up rather quickly

I also have a review from Workbench if you'd like, but it seems that will be unnecessary, as you have reached the same conclusion they did

Enjoy your beautiful (and a graceful top quality tool like that is a thing of beauty) saw
Slickshift,

Hi. Yes, I think the Bosch slider is both beautiful and graceful. But it isn't glitzy like some other products. You don't really appreciate that unless you see them side by side. And then run them side by side. That's when you see/feel small details like...

- Rough edges and uneven gaps in the other products when compared to the Bosch.

- Subtle things on the Bosch like the little knurled edges around the mounting bolt holes (presumably to allow the mounting bolts to grip better).

- The adjustable Bosch handle that feels like it's molded to your hand.

- A VERY smooth slider.

- The little adjustment tool kit mounted in it's own compartment on the back of the saw.

- The LARGE sawdust capturing funnel. (It's not perfect, but MUCH better than the Dewalt's.)

- The softer start up when you pull the trigger. (Not quite as good as the Makita, but way better than the hard jerk of the Dewalt.)

- The incredibly solid feel of the Bosch. For example, I tested the Bosch and Dewalt for deflection of the arm. With the arm all the way back and putting a lot of sideways pressure on the arm, the Bosch was completely imobile and silent while the Dewalt moved very slightly and gave off a clicking/creaking sound. With arm all the way forward (in it's "worst" position), the Bosch deflected sideways about 1/16" - 1/8" after pressing VERY hard. With moderate pressure, the Dewalt deflected at least 1/4". The Bosch is VERY solid.

For me, the overall quality feel of the Bosch and its up-front controls sold me. I liked the Makita, but it's about 5 years old and needs updating. Both the Bosch and Makita were extremely high quality machines, but the Bosch's updated ease of use features are amazing! If the Makita had the same up-to-date features, it would be a tough choice.

One issue is the cost... At $540, the Bosch is pretty pricey for a 10" slider. But... That's about $180 less than the Dewalt 12" slider with laser and easily has enough capacity for my needs. And the Bosch quality is much higher (IMO) than the Dewalt.

Or, I could get a cheapy saw for maybe half the cost. Here, the issue for me is simple... A month from now, will I remember the extra $250 or so that I spent for the Bosch? Nope! Will I appreciate the feel, looks and accuracy of the Bosch EVERY TIME I USE IT?!? Duh.

Thanks for the feedback,

Dan.
 
 

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