Relatively New Air Compressor Not Working


  #1  
Old 04-05-08, 10:27 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Relatively New Air Compressor Not Working

Hello,

I am completely new to air tools. I am setting up a wood shop, to do carpentry, hopefully retire to build furniture. I want to use an air nailer.

So, when I noticed Sears having a decent sale on an air compressor I went ahead and purchased it, figuring it would last the rest of my life.

I got a 125 psi, 12 gallon, upright on wheels compressor. I bought a nail gun and have used it several times. Everything worked perfectly, no troubles at all.

I have this out in my garage. I apparently left it plugged in all winter. I live in New England and it gets below freezing here.

Now this Spring it is not working. It had held air for most of the winter. I inflated a basketball with it last month, which is when I realized it is not running.

Any ideas why it would just stop working? There is no on/off switch, or reset that I could find.

I can't find the manual either, but I'm sure it's around and will turn up in my search.

Thought I'd mention this episode here as the wealth of experience you guys have can probably help.

Thanks in advance.

--Robert Kelsey
 
  #2  
Old 04-05-08, 10:42 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 19,281
Received 6 Upvotes on 6 Posts
Robert,
I don't think I've ever seen a comp w/o at least a reset switch on the motor somewhere. If it was really cold, and the comp tried to start, it could have tripped the overload. Keep looking for that manual...

BTW, this isn't by chance on a circuit with a separate breaker is it? Anything else not working? What about the outlet, does it have power?
 
  #3  
Old 04-05-08, 10:54 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 45,659
Received 835 Upvotes on 732 Posts
About the only thing frezzing temps will hurt is the moisture that collects in the tank - but it usually settles to the bottom. It's always a good idea to bleed off the water on a regular basis.

Are you sure there isn't an on/off switch. It should be on a box between the pump and the motor..... or is this a direct drive oil less pump?

btw - welcome to the forums!
 
  #4  
Old 04-05-08, 03:29 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I had my doubts about there not being a reset at least, let alone an on/off.

When I plug this compressor in (back when it worked) it would start hammering away and eventually stop, obviously when the tank filled.

Every now and then, it would cycle back on. It didn't hold air. I investigated that and replaced some fittings with quick disconnects, and wrapped every screw on fitting there with teflon.

That seemed to stop all the leaks. It held air.

Yes, I need to find that manual! Where on earth it decided to hide is beyond me, although I'm sure it's right there ... somewhere.

OK, thanks ... you answered my questions without probably really even knowing it. The cold probably hasn't hurt it, and there must be some reset somewhere.

It's a Craftsmen, made for the hobbyist more than a pro. I need to get it up where I can see it and have a better look around.

I'll let you know!

--Robert Kelsey
 
  #5  
Old 04-05-08, 05:12 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 9 Upvotes on 8 Posts
What is the model number of the compressor?
 
  #6  
Old 04-05-08, 06:11 PM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,500
Received 68 Upvotes on 62 Posts
Exactly which model did you buy?

If it is less than a year you would do well to return it.
You mentioned that you hoped this compressor would last a lifetime but as you sound alive and well it did not make it.
Not sure where you live but in a sub zero climate diaphragm compressors don't do too well if started when cold.

A belt drive oil type is the style that would potentially give you long service.
 
  #7  
Old 04-05-08, 07:33 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 917
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
[IMG][/IMG]

iF YOUR REGULATOR LOOKS LIKE THIS--HERE IS OFF & ON
SWITCH.--Don't think motor has reset..............

ps: Image from my Craftsman owner manual ( ear splitting ) model # 919.167240
 

Last edited by j HOWARD; 04-05-08 at 08:22 PM.
  #8  
Old 04-06-08, 12:38 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I still don't have this thing running.

Model #921-166400
Serial #023651
Duty Cycle 50%
12 Gal. 125 PSI
Craftsman Direct Drive Cast Iron Oil Lubricated Cylinder

Upon closer inspection, in better light, I do see an "Off" so I will assume this is the on/off switch. It doesn't run in either position.

I'm Googling for the manual now, but so far have not turned anything up.

--Robert
 
  #9  
Old 04-06-08, 01:36 PM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,500
Received 68 Upvotes on 62 Posts
Some of that type of pressure switch have the on/off knob on the top or side of the removable cover.
If the cover is not on straight or tight it may not move the contacts on the switch far enough.
These are tough to troubleshoot because when you remove the cover the contacts stay open.

For troubleshooting beyond looking for a cover out of place or a reset button you would need to use a meter to find the trouble.

Would this thing still be under warranty?
 
  #10  
Old 04-06-08, 01:48 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 19,281
Received 6 Upvotes on 6 Posts
The manual is available here after a quick registration procedure.......

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/part...0080204x00001a


I didn't see anything of any real importance there. No mention of a motor reset. Does it hum or do anything at all?

Do you have power to the outlet? I may have missed that answer if you did.
 
  #11  
Old 04-06-08, 01:51 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 9 Upvotes on 8 Posts
Your Sears model number is 00916640000 just for information. Glad you found the on off switch. Is there any way you can confirm power is getting to the switch? Is there a breaker off, or open neutral in the circuit?
 
  #12  
Old 04-06-08, 02:24 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 917
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Let me ask a really stupid question " is this tank full of air or is it empty?"
 
  #13  
Old 04-07-08, 04:09 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
The tank is empty, I had drained it off last month. That is when I had realized it wasn't working.

I have the manual now, although it really doesn't help much.

The oil level is halfway up in the bubble. I am assuming that is correct. Funny the manual doesn't mention that.

The Off switch is a lever or handle. I can feel it "switch", and I see contacts on the bottom of that box move.

Still, nothing happens when I plug it in, in any position.

I plugged a radio into the same cord and it worked. I suppose I should try it direct to the outlet as well, although I have little hope that will help.

Seems there is a one year warranty on it. I may be right on the edge of that, I probably purchased this in the Spring of last year. Although the sales receipt is going to be in the same place the manual is ... and I can't find that.

--Robert
 
  #14  
Old 04-07-08, 04:33 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 9 Upvotes on 8 Posts
Robert, check your credit card receipt, if you paid with your
Sears card. That may help you find a valid purchase date. I would get it back asap to prevent missing your warranty date. You say you plugged a radio into the same "cord". What cord? You should not have your compressor plugged into a cord at all. It should be plugged directly into a receptacle. One rule, add hose, don't move compressor and don't use extension cords. Plug it into a wall receptacle and let us know what happens. As you move the switch, you should see an arc in the contacts as they close. If not, you don't have power.
 
  #15  
Old 04-12-08, 07:01 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I'm still messing around with this issue.

I have the plastic cover off the motor now, and the cover off the switch.

I have power to the switch, and i have power to the motor.

On the top of the motor is a starting capacitor and another (probably capacitor) which I can't read the print on.

If I touch my simple light tester (two prongs and a diode type) to the capacitor, and one to the motor housing I get a light. Same with the second capacitor.

If I touch the tester to each of the terminals on either of these items I get no light. Only when I touch one to the housing to I get a light.

My electronics knowledge is a little rusty.

I'm assuming I should replace one, or both of these.

I downloaded the PDF manual from Sears. It does not even show these two capacitors.

Any ideas?

--rdkelsey
 
  #16  
Old 04-12-08, 07:55 AM
W
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northeast
Posts: 35
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
A capacitor is like a starter on a car. It charges the motor when power is turned on. The parts breakdown won't show capacitors. The part would be just the motor and if you needed one, it would include the capacitor(s).

If you're sure that the motor is not seized, turn of the power. Wait about 1/2 hour to be sure they drain. Then make a note of the wiring diagram, remove them and go to a local motor repair or Grainger and match them up. It sounds like you found the problem.
 
  #17  
Old 04-12-08, 07:57 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 19,281
Received 6 Upvotes on 6 Posts
Wouldn't there at least be a hum? Or maybe not if the caps are open?
 
  #18  
Old 04-12-08, 08:35 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
There is no sound, no hum, no nuttin ... silent as a mouse.

--rdkelsey
 
  #19  
Old 04-12-08, 09:12 AM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,500
Received 68 Upvotes on 62 Posts
You are not testing the electrical properly.

You need to apply your test light to the hot and neutral connections in the motor itself.
[When you probe a wire and the case ground you could get a false reading.]
You then need to probe the neutral connection at the motor and then move backwards in the circuit with the other probe.
Keep one test probe on the neutral in the motor and then probe the terminals in the switch with the other probe.

A positive indication of voltage at the motor would indicate a bad motor.
A positive indication at one terminal of the switch and not the other would indicate an open switch.
No voltage at any location could indicate a bad plug or cord.

Please be very careful with this.
If you are unsure of electrical safety any amount a proper repair charges would be a bargain!
 
  #20  
Old 04-12-08, 09:39 AM
J
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 917
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Did you ever find out if this machine is still under warranty??
 
  #21  
Old 04-15-08, 04:35 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I did do some checking in my statements.

It seems I purchased this about a year and a week before I began trying to fix it.

I will try stepping back from the motor as mentioned below by Greg. Hopefully have some time this weekend to get into the shop.

--Robert
 
  #22  
Old 04-15-08, 07:36 AM
J
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 917
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Most people don't want to waste the money on extended
warranties--it always seems that if you buy one nothing bad
happens--if you don't, the machine breaks down one week after the factory warranty expires.............
 
  #23  
Old 05-24-08, 05:17 PM
T
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 44
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Gunguy45
Robert,
I don't think I've ever seen a comp w/o at least a reset switch on the motor somewhere. If it was really cold, and the comp tried to start, it could have tripped the overload. Keep looking for that manual...
I had been fiddling with my pressure switch (CH compressor would not turn on) for some time today when I saw this reference to a reset switch - not listed on my schematic.

I turned the sucker on its side to remove the shroud and check for power at the motor, when one of my 7 year-old twins began studying it (I had unplugged it) and found a reset button and pressed it. Voila! It worked!

Is this some kind of breaker that is triggered by a current overload?

Many thanks for the reference to a reset button...not that my son needed to read it, but I had been wondering about its existence.
 
  #24  
Old 05-25-08, 07:25 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thumbs down Don't Buy Sears or Craftsman Products

Hello,

I have been all over this motor looking for a reset ... it doesn't exist.

I have contacted Sears for parts, to replace the motor, which seems to be the problem. I had an electrical engineer friend have a look.

Sears informed me that the manufacturer of the motor does not offer a replacement motor, and they apparently do not make this type of motor any more. Not a surprise as I figure many other people are in the same boat I am in.

Upon query, I found that Sears will not stand by their product. Now I realize that the 1 year warranty period is over, but none-the-less, this is basically a brand-new compressor with a dead motor, that is not my fault. I purchased a product expecting it to last 20 years. It is inferior product design in the first place, with a motor made in China, that is no longer manufactured. This just isn't good business practice.

In my opinion Sears should stand by their product, acknowledge they had a bogus compressor in this model, and replace the compressor, or motor, or whatever in order that I have the compressor that I paid around $200 for. It should be recalled.

Sears will not honor that trust that we place in a manufacturer.

But who loses? Well, I'm definitely out $200 for a compressor that does not work. I paid about $200 to drive about 50 nails.

But ... although I do have a $1,000 craftsman table saw, a very old craftsman drill press, a lawn tractor with attachments, washer/dryer, refrigerator and more ... I will not be buying any more craftsman tools, OR Sears products ... that means I do not purchase my next refrigerator from them, nor the dishwasher, nor the washer & dryer, nor any more tools for the wood shop I'm building or anything else ... including clothes.

I hope you do not purchase from Sears as well. America should unite and make a point!

I now stay at the other end of the mall and spend my earned dollars elsewhere.

Goodbye Sears!

--Robert Kelsey
Hamden, CT
 
  #25  
Old 05-25-08, 07:26 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 19,281
Received 6 Upvotes on 6 Posts
Yes, thats exactly what it is...basically a ckt breaker. Glad the searching for answers was able to help you.
 
  #26  
Old 05-25-08, 11:25 AM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,500
Received 68 Upvotes on 62 Posts
I can sympathize with you for being upset with your purchase but the warranty period was over and you did say that you had left this unit plugged in all winter in freezing temperatures.
It makes perfect sense that a direct drive oil filled compressor that had tried to run with molasses thick oil would die.
Your unit having an automatic reset motor would trip multiple times on the overload each time it tried to start.

In your first post you you said your expectation was for this unit to last the rest of your life which could never happen with this type of unit.

There are compressor buying tips here.

I looked at the Sears site and was blown away at all the pretty looking but not-worth-buying compressors they have listed.
However, they also have several compressors, reasonably priced that would last a lifetime, one of which is pictured below and only sells for about $450.00.
Not much per year for the rest of your life!

Click image:

Image courtesy of chpower.com
 
  #27  
Old 06-09-08, 06:23 AM
T
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 44
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
BTW, I discovered I had too much oil in the pan (sight glass was completely covered - I thought it was *empty*) in my CH direct drive compressor. The oil that came out had some black sediment in it - presumably metal filings.

I guess one should follow the instructions in the manual re: changing the oil after the first hour of use. They really do build up crap in the oil.
 
  #28  
Old 06-10-08, 03:06 AM
IBM5081's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 636
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I gave away my (working) single tank on wheels air compressor. It was top-heavy and took up quite a bit of space.
Since then I have been pleased with the 4-gallon 2 h.p. units that have the twin tanks stacked vertically. Weighing about 70# they can be picked up with one arm and take little space. It powers a framing nailer with no problem and will inflate car tires, even though it gets a bit warm doing that.
It was in the $250 range.
 
  #29  
Old 07-06-08, 04:40 PM
T
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 44
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Gunguy45
Yes, thats exactly what it is...basically a ckt breaker. Glad the searching for answers was able to help you.
New problem: I usually release all pressure when done. When I run it again, it fills up to the cut-off pressure just fine, but the breaker now trips within a few seconds of the motor cycling on again. I checked the outlet voltage (118-120V). Even if I leave the thing for 30 minutes, 5 seconds or so into the next cycle the breaker trips again.

Is the breaker purely a voltage sensor, and could the motor be drawing too much current or something, causing the breaker to trip?
 
  #30  
Old 07-06-08, 06:01 PM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,500
Received 68 Upvotes on 62 Posts
taxrage,

Your symptoms sound like the pressure switch is not unloading.

There is an air release that each time the compressor shuts off a lever in the switch trips an air valve to drain the line between the pump and tank of air.

Either bad pressure switch or bad check valve.
 
  #31  
Old 07-06-08, 09:50 PM
T
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 44
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
If the pressure switch gets to do its job, I do hear air being released (same thing happens if I flip the power switch to OFF). The problem is, the breaker is tripping, even after the line pressure has been released.

If the breaker trips, there is no release of air. Since the motor does start up if I push the breaker in, what is a pressurized line contributing here? The breaker will trip after I reset it even if I've released the line pressure by turning the power lever OFF/ON.
 
  #32  
Old 07-08-08, 10:54 AM
T
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 44
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Originally Posted by GregH
taxrage,

Your symptoms sound like the pressure switch is not unloading.

There is an air release that each time the compressor shuts off a lever in the switch trips an air valve to drain the line between the pump and tank of air.

Either bad pressure switch or bad check valve.
Even if the line pressure isn't bled off due to one of the above, how exactly does it cause the motor to cut out? It will certainly run for 5 or more seconds (i.e. line pressure doesn't stop it from cycling on). Is there a circuit that senses too much current draw/voltage drop that trips the breaker? Couldn't the breaker itself just be faulty? CH told me that I should take it to a service centre, but I'd like to see if I might be able to fix it myself.
 
  #33  
Old 07-08-08, 02:58 PM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,500
Received 68 Upvotes on 62 Posts
I don't exactly understand what you are asking.

If the compressor starts and runs each time you start it, builds up pressure and turns off when it reaches 100 psi or so the motor and circuit breaker are likely fine.
If when it restarts at around 80 psi or so it trips your home's cct breaker then it is starting with a load against the piston(s) which will exceed the motor's ability to successfully start fully.

It is the motor running too long on the start winding that trips the house cct breaker.
 
  #34  
Old 07-09-08, 08:48 PM
T
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 44
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Originally Posted by GregH
I don't exactly understand what you are asking.

If the compressor starts and runs each time you start it, builds up pressure and turns off when it reaches 100 psi or so the motor and circuit breaker are likely fine.
If when it restarts at around 80 psi or so it trips your home's cct breaker then it is starting with a load against the piston(s) which will exceed the motor's ability to successfully start fully.

It is the motor running too long on the start winding that trips the house cct breaker.
The sequence - from empty - is:
  • Fills to 125 psi;
  • Cut-out;
  • Use tools, cut-in around 85 psi;
  • Motor breaker trips within a few seconds, below 100 psi;
 
  #35  
Old 07-10-08, 08:29 AM
M
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 695
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
If you are sure the check valve isn't back-leaking compressed air into the discharge tube, then it's the motor. It's overheating, so it could be several things, I'd check the start capacitor first. Also the switch that cuts out the start winding when the motor is up to speed. Does it have a run capacitor? Check that too.
 
  #36  
Old 07-10-08, 10:03 AM
T
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 44
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Originally Posted by markiz37
If you are sure the check valve isn't back-leaking compressed air into the discharge tube, then it's the motor. It's overheating, so it could be several things, I'd check the start capacitor first. Also the switch that cuts out the start winding when the motor is up to speed. Does it have a run capacitor? Check that too.
So, a number of things can possibly cause the motor to work too hard. How does the breaker sense this?

My CH twin "hot dog" unit has 2 capacitors. I presume they are high voltage (120). How do you test them?

Could the breaker just be faulty?
 
  #37  
Old 07-10-08, 11:01 AM
M
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 695
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/captest.htm#cttcm

This will give you a good idea. Don't forget to discharge it first, be safe. The "breaker" you are talking about is really a thermal overload popper. Too much current will overheat the winding and pop the overload. Get an ampmeter on the motor when it's running, if the current in the line is within the nameplate rating, it could be that you just have a faulty oveload.
 
  #38  
Old 07-10-08, 12:53 PM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,500
Received 68 Upvotes on 62 Posts
You need to be sure the compressor is indeed unloading cause if it ain't you could be on a wild goose chase.

If you allow the compressor to pump up the tank and shut off then bleed a bit of air until it starts.
The second it starts pull the plug.
Then CAREFULLY loosen the air line at the compressor head that goes to the tank.
You should have no pressure there.

If you have pressure you have a mechanical problem with the check valve or pressure switch.
 
  #39  
Old 07-10-08, 06:16 PM
T
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 44
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
I put a Fluke on the outlet and made a couple of observations: 1) line voltage drops from 121V to 118V when the tank first pressurizes from empty and 2) line voltage drops from 121V to 112V on subsequent cycles...UNLESS tank pressure is below something like 40 psi (i.e. I manually turn off the switch, bleed off some pressure and then turn it on again). Pressure needs to drop to this level for something to "switch".

In other words, I guess the breaker is properly sensing an over-current condition, probably due to pressure in the line at startup which is causing the motor to work harder.

Is there a difference between pressure in the line mid-cycle vs startup w.r.t. the motor having to work much harder for an extended period, i.e. after the first few seconds aren't things equal as far as the motor is concerned?
 
  #40  
Old 07-10-08, 07:21 PM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,500
Received 68 Upvotes on 62 Posts
Ok..............You have pretty much lost me.

I work on these things as part of my job and although you may have an academic interest in measuring voltages it will not help at this point.

You need to do what I suggest before you do any more probing!
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description: