what is this tool
#1
what is this tool
I found this tool among some junk miscellaneous tools. All it says on it is "wear goggles". No brand name or numbers anything like that. Looks like some kind of tool for starting or punching tools. Obviously you'd hit the top end with a hammer. It's got a broken-off drill bit stuck in the business end of it. I can't see how to remove it, or even if I could how I'd get another one in and what even secures the bit. Maybe there's a part missing? Any comments appreciated.
#2
Group Moderator
Looks like an impact driver though I've never seen anyone stick a drill in one. Put the drill bit against something firm and push hard on the handle. Does the bit retract and rotate?
#3
As suggested I put the drill against something firm and then pushed on the handle. Nothing happened/moved. Thought maybe it might be rusted tight in there so put some penetrating oil where the bit is inserted and waited a while, then tried again. Nothing happened/moved. I locked the bit in a vise and tried pushing, pulling, wiggling. Nothing, just stuck solid it seems.
I cleaned some of that rust/tarnish on the butt end and saw imprinted into the steel the word "DIAMOND". If it is indeed an impact driver of some sort, how the heck does it work, I wonder. Probably just a piece of junk but I'm curious anyway.
I cleaned some of that rust/tarnish on the butt end and saw imprinted into the steel the word "DIAMOND". If it is indeed an impact driver of some sort, how the heck does it work, I wonder. Probably just a piece of junk but I'm curious anyway.
#4
Member
If the elongated slot is a through slot. the slot is for a drift key to drive the tool (drill in the pic) out of the collet. My guess (SWAG) is the tool was used to submerge nail heads in drywall before screws became the norm. The end of the tool would be located within the slot so when the plunger at the top was struck, the tool recessed the nail head the desired depth.
#5
Ok good at least a good clue on what the tool is (was) probably used for. The elongated slot is indeed a through slot, probably/likely as suggested intended for the insertion of a drift key (which I do not have). I'm unclear even if I did have a drift key, or was to use anything else, how it would work to remove (drive?) that broken drill bit out of the apparent "collet". Also still clueless what type of tool (bit?) is actually intended to be inserted into the apparent collet. How does the collet secure whatever tool is inserted in the first place? I don't get it. Too high tech for me I guess. Thanks for the replies.
#7
#8
Member
Looks like a stone-mason's hole-chisel, but with a drill bit jammed in it. Hollow in the center to get stone dust and chips away from the impact face, slotted to give the dust and chips an exit. Would be used to punch holes in concrete block; or with an air hammer to make anchoring holes in stone or brick for mounting electric meters etc.
Looks like somebody jammed a drill bit into the throat trying to drive a small hole.
To unstick the bit, I'd toss it in the freezer for a hour to get the metal to contract, take it out and clamp the drill bit in a vise, heat the "collar" with a propane torch to get it to expand, and pry it apart with a tie rod separator/pickle fork.
Last edited by Hal_S; 08-16-18 at 05:53 AM.
#9
Member
Thanks for the pics. The top of the tool (handgrip end with the hex) appears deformed indicating the tool was forced by impact from this end. It was not used for rotating a drill bit. The bottom end of the tool has a recess larger than the drill diameter. I think the recess is for the collet. The collet is cone shaped with the larger diameter at this end of the tool. I checked the web for diamond tools and find there are diamond tipped chisels used by metal smiths for carving designs into metal. While most of the chisels tips had a hex body, some were round that would work with a collet. There were multiple chisel tips depending on the cut to be made. My guess is the tool gave the smith better control when positioning the chisel. Any metal smiths out there than can comment?
#10
Hall_S seems correct in regard to what the tool is for, to chisel masonry/concrete and such, similar to what I found here after googling some more:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dasco-Pr...-100118423-_-N
https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-16-33...+Masonry+Tools
However my examples I found above seem to have the chisel permanently attached, whereas mine has that collar and perhaps/apparently as beelzebob mentions with a "collet" within which would supposedly permit changing out of various chisel types/sizes. I guess I'd like to try getting that drill bit out using Hal_S suggested method but don't have any tie rod separator or pickle fork. If there's a collet in there I don't understand how it works, how it might release that drill bit and then if I had the intended type of stone chisel/bit to replace it with how that goes in and is secured and then how to release it again.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dasco-Pr...-100118423-_-N
https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-16-33...+Masonry+Tools
However my examples I found above seem to have the chisel permanently attached, whereas mine has that collar and perhaps/apparently as beelzebob mentions with a "collet" within which would supposedly permit changing out of various chisel types/sizes. I guess I'd like to try getting that drill bit out using Hal_S suggested method but don't have any tie rod separator or pickle fork. If there's a collet in there I don't understand how it works, how it might release that drill bit and then if I had the intended type of stone chisel/bit to replace it with how that goes in and is secured and then how to release it again.
#11
Member
Originally Posted by sgull
However my examples I found above seem to have the chisel permanently attached, whereas mine has that collar and perhaps/apparently as beelzebob mentions with a "collet" within which would supposedly permit changing out of various chisel types/sizes.
It looks like what I've seen masons use to smack rocks to make a round holes. The side "vents" let stone dust escape.
But, after thinking about it, it's probably a ground-rod-driver" aka rebar-driver.
It's a gadget that lets you use a demo hammer to drive 8' of rebar into the ground.
Last edited by Hal_S; 08-16-18 at 01:51 PM.
#12
That tool IS a circular chisel for smacking rocks to make a round hole.
I'm lost
#13
Member
Nope, a "ground rod driver" attachment for a jack hammer;
with a drill bit stuck in it.
Which I think I've seen mis-used to put round holes into soft masonry.
with a drill bit stuck in it.
Which I think I've seen mis-used to put round holes into soft masonry.
#14
Member
I'm thinking it might be for concrete anchors. Ackerman's I think it was is all I remember hearing them called, not very common today but used to be, and there were various sizes, so rather than having 8 or so individual drivers like I do (stashed on one of the dusty shelves of very seldom or almost never used any more tools in the shop) this would have had separate ends that fit into the end of the tool, probably snuggly, hence the drift slot. Why a drill bit would be in there I don't know, but not thinking of any possible use for it that way.
#15
That thing shown in the picture in post 13 is what's supposed to go into my tool? If I could get the drill bit out? If I got that thing in the picture that would somehow go into my tool? If so how do I get it out?
#16
Member
Originally Posted by sgull
That thing shown in the picture in post 13 is what's supposed to go into my tool?
It's goes on a demolition jack hammer,
A) an adapter for driving ground rods, or for driving spikes.
B) a "core bit" for making round holes in masonry.
The grip indicates that it's supposed to be held in your hand, which suggests fine control.
The slots suggest material escapes, (driving a steel rod doesn't require slots, so why else have slots?)
So I'm sticking with "it's a demo hammer tool for driving circular holes into masonry".
Last edited by Hal_S; 08-16-18 at 02:23 PM.
#17
Guess I'll never get that bit out and will be unable to use my "Ackermans", ever, for whatever exactly it might be intended for. oh well.
#18
Member
Make a drift from steel whose width is slightly less than the width of the slot. The drift should be about 2 inches long with the height of the ramp at the middle the same as distance between top of drill and top of slot. Make the ramp slope as small as possible. File the edges of the ramp to better conform to the radius at the top of the slot. This should drive the drill and collet out of the tool.
#19
Make a drift from steel whose width is slightly less than the width of the slot.
#20
Member
Originally Posted by sgull
Any quick suggestions on what steel to use?
Actually, I've had good results popping seized junctions apart using modern cut nails as shims. They're cheap, they angled, they're meant to be hammered on. You just have to use enough of them side-by-side to match the width of the slot. So, 1/2" gap takes about 5 nails each side, 10 total.
You DO want to use safety glasses, cause I've had the tops sliver off.
Other option is stop by the local weekend flea market and look for a pair of broken metal chisels (they're common) which are about the right width to slide into the slot.
2 pount hand sledge, wear safety googles, and close your eyes just before you hit, (just in case).
Last edited by Hal_S; 08-17-18 at 12:53 PM.
#21
Will they just look at me with funny stare and think I'm crazy if go to the hardware store and ask if they sell any modern cut nails? I wouldn't have expected they even sell such. Do they?
#22
Member
Originally Posted by sgull
Will they just look at me with funny stare and think I'm crazy if go to the hardware store and ask if they sell any modern cut nails? I wouldn't have expected they even sell such. Do they?
On the rack at big box orange and big box blue stores.
#23
Well part of the problem is in my neck of the woods there is no big box blue or orange stores. I went to local building supply store and the local hardware store they have here. The did indeed stare at me funny and told me no they don't have anything like that. I called them "cut nails" and "modern cut nails" and even "masonry nails" but they didn't have anything close to what is pictured in the previous posts/links here. One worker said "maybe they have those old horseshoe nails at the grain and feed store" but we don't have those either here. I tried using the rat tail of a rat tail file I have; it seemed like just the right size and taper but despite my effort clamping the tool in the vise and and trying to use the rat tail as a drift, the drill bit still would not budge even with considerable force hammering. Not sure what was meant by the suggestion to try to use a broken metal chisel. What's a metal chisel? You mean a wood chisel made of metal or an actual chisel made to chisel metal. If a chisel to chisel metal I've never heard/seen that before.
#24
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Old School Hammer Drill
Sir: That is a Morris taper 1 hand set for drilling holes for Red Head type concrete anchors among other types such as star tip rock and concrete drills, slow hard work but does the job one lick at a time.
#25
Member
Originally Posted by BTJLU447
Morris taper 1 hand set for drilling hole
Female end is a standard (Morse-taper) for accepting a wide range of bits, drills chisels-
Male end looks like it fits on a demolition jack hammer-
Last edited by Hal_S; 08-18-18 at 11:40 AM.
#26
Hal_S...nope, no jackhammer or anything normally...though I guess you could use one on the end. I've seen similar and it's purely designed for hand use, thus the large handguard for mis-hits. Put the bit you want in, hold it with one hand and use a 3 lb drilling hammer...sort of like a star drill with interchangeable heads.
Seems I've seen an adapter/bit you can use to drive nails into concrete to hold wires and pipes also? Kinda like a manual Hilti gun?
Seems I've seen an adapter/bit you can use to drive nails into concrete to hold wires and pipes also? Kinda like a manual Hilti gun?
#27
Member
I think BTJU447 is on to a solution. It is the predecessor of a hammer drill( with a carbide tipped drill bit) for making holes in concrete, bricks, cinder blocks, etc..Doesn't make any difference if the part holding the drill bit is a collet or has a morse taper, the principle is the same. A tapered piece going into a tapered hole squeezes more against the bit (drill in this case) the deeper the tapered piece goes into the tapered hole. I can think of a good reason the rat tail file didn't work as a drift. The file is harder than the steel in the tool and drill bit. As the file met resistance as you impacted it, the file removed steel in the slot until it got stuck and before it pushed on the drill bit. Your keystock is a good approach as a drift. File width of keystock on one end to be less than width of keyslot until it protrudes thru the tool slot 1 inch. If the height of the keystock is more than the distance from the top of drill bit to top of keyslot, file a taper on the top of the keystock so keystock make contact with drill bit with keystock protruding 1/2 inch beyond tool.This should drive the drill bit out. If the height of the keystock is less than the distance from the top of drill bit to top of keyslot, place a clamp or visegrips on the keystock so keystock is protruding 1/2 inch beyond tool. Drive a appropriate sized screw driver tapered tip between the keystock and the top of the drill bit. This should drive the drill bit out. Maybe a little heat at the collet end of the tool from a propane/MAP torch might help if you have the device.
#28
Member
Originally Posted by Gunguy45
I've seen similar and it's purely designed for hand use, thus the large handguard for mis-hits.
IIRC, there are "mushroom caps" to fit OVER the chamfered end of air chisels so you can use them as hand tools without bashing the ends to they can't be used in an air chisel anymore , I'd guess there would have been something similar for this tool, otherwise the nice chamfered-end would'n't be smooth, but mushroomed from being hit with a 3 pount hammer?
Last edited by Hal_S; 08-18-18 at 04:11 PM.
#29
Member
Agree, but nobody knows how old/new this tool is. It will also need many hammer blows before the mushroom is down to the hand shield at which time your retiring or you get a new tool.