Hardwired siren questions

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Old 07-09-03, 11:23 AM
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Hardwired siren questions

I was going to buy one of the all-in-one units (either a ITI Simon 3 or a Visonic Powermax), install the control unit in a discrete location and disable the internal sounder. Then hardwire sirens a safe distance away from the control unit.

In my research I found that the Powermax outputs for external sirens are only 150 mA (external) and 50 mA (internal) at 9 VDC. I cannot find hard numbers for the Simon 3.

For my external siren I can install an ITI Maxi Blaster (Part # 13-046) in the attic (near a vent). It only draws 145 mA (at 12 VDC, less at 9 volts). No problems there.

But what do I do for an "inside the house" siren? The only things I can find that use less than 50 mA are tiny piezo buzzers (at Radio Shack). They are unmounted black components though, I'd really like to find something that is somewhat professional looking to mount on a wall or ceiling somewhere. Anyone know what I can use instead? If one was to use a piezo buzzer like that (perhaps hidden inside a ceiling light fixture), is it necessary to buy a "dual tone", or is the siren frequency generated by the alarm signal? I could rig a small box with a micro relay and an external power source to power something beefier, but that seems like a PITA. Besides, I get nervous wiring something like that up in the attic.

Just an aside, and not entirely relevant to my main question- why is it that the installation manual for the Powermax says that for UL installations the external sounders cannot be used? You can't have a siren? You are supposed to utilize the internal siren only? (which helps the burglar figure out where the control unit is) Can't use X-10 modules either. What is with that?

Thanks,

madkiwi
 
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Old 07-09-03, 07:11 PM
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This is according to the ITI Simon 3 Installation Manual:
Note
The total current available
from the DCOUT terminal is
250 mA at up to 122 F (50
C).
The DCOUT is the middle terminal (positive) HWIN1 and HWIN2 are both Commons. So, between the 2 you can have a total of 250mA. You could very easily install an exterior siren (like the MaxiBlast) and an interior Peizo type siren (have you seen the <a href="http://64.49.194.64/products/phone.jsp?nav=bypart">Phone Jack Peizo</a> - very cool, I installed one with my system - max 45mA.) You could feasibly install 1 MaxiBlast and 2 Phone Jack Piezos, and not exceed the 250mA.

If you buy a siren with a driver built-in (or install a separate siren driver), you could setup a relay very easily and you wouldn't have to connect your sirens directly to the panel.

As you know, I know nothing about the PowerMax, so I can't really help there. UL may not be tested with those parts (it costs an arm and a leg to get components tested) so they are not listed for UL systems - just a guess.

BTW, UL for a residential system is not that big of a deal. Yes, you want a UL listed system, but you don't have to worry about installing the system to UL specs - that is for commercial and, more specifically, government installations that require it.
 
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Old 07-09-03, 11:01 PM
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Thanks Brandon,

That does help. Does the Simon send a signal to the phone jack siren when it dials out or is it handled on a seperate pair of wires? Is it done by an X-10 signal? Actually, that doesn't make sense, if it was X-10 then we wouldn't be worried about the 250 mA limit.

Do you know if the LD105 Hardwire Interior Siren (13-374) refered to in the installation manual for the Simon 3 is still available? I looked for "Hardwire Interior Siren" and found the 60-278 which is possibly similar- can't tell for sure.

If something draws 60 mA at 12 volts, how much will it draw at 9 volts? Or conversely, if something provides 60 mA at 9 volts, how many mA at 12 volts? I am sure Ohm's law or something else I forgot from high school physics would help me out here.

Thanks,

Mark
 

Last edited by madkiwi; 07-09-03 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 07-10-03, 06:00 AM
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Actually, the Phone Jack siren works on a pair of wires - the idea behind it is that you have to have phones at the security system anyway, so why not run a piezo siren back to a phone jack on existing wires? (the phone wires) Since it's a piezo and doesn't draw much power, 1 pair of 22 gauge wire is plenty enough to run it.

I can't find anything on the LD105 anywhere, and I'm not familiar with it - but if it's a combo speaker/piezo, then yes it is the same.

The mA depends on the Voltage and the wattage of the siren.

Amps x Voltage = Wattage

Hope that helps.
 
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