GE\ITI Concord "sensor xx tamper" trouble beeps

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Old 03-29-05, 09:17 PM
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Question GE\ITI Concord "sensor xx tamper" trouble beeps

I'm learning my new GE Wireless Security (80-268) Concord Starter Kit w/16 Wireless Zones. I have tested the few zones I've setup and the results comeback as sensor OK for all of my sensors.

After exiting the test mode and disarming the alarm I notice that my programming keypad will blink * to the left of the datetime and occasionally beeps 5 times indicating trouble. The troubleshooting guide says "A sensor cover is off or open. Secure the cover and trip the sensor to clear the tamper condition." The status says Sensor xx tamper. Well can I reset these since they are perfectly fine, how do I go about making the trouble and the beeping go away?


Thanks
 
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Old 03-30-05, 05:28 AM
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What type of sensor is it, and what sensor group do you have it programmed as?
 
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Old 03-30-05, 06:14 AM
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The first 2 sensors are internal PIRs, so I grouped them 15 ="Interior PIR motion sensors".

The other sensor is 13 = "Exterior doors and windows" for the exterior doors.

I've only setup a few of them for testing and deleted extra zones, which I'll add back later. (Baby steps so I can get it working.)

So zone 3(15), zone 4(15) and zone 5(13); with 1, 2, 6, 7 and 8 deleted for now. No wireless and no phone module yet.

(If I unplug the unit and disconnect the battery, is there an internal memory or will it all reset? The beeping is annoying.)
 

Last edited by Savage; 03-30-05 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 03-30-05, 04:28 PM
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After you press *, you arm and disarm the panel (the user manual says "change the arming level"). Are _all_ of the sensors reporting tampers, or just specific ones?

Yes, you can power down the panel. The only thing that will be lost is the current time/date setting. When you go into programming, you are altering the contents of a non-volitile eprom.
 
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Old 03-30-05, 04:34 PM
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Well I've never armed the alarm, but I have Deon the disarm, hoping that would help. I didn't want to arm it with the troubles. All 3 are saying tampered. I was wondering about changing the group to see if that helps.
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It seems to PROTEST when I try to arm it, when any sensors show the status of tamper.

If I delete all sensors, it says System is OK and no beeps (or security either). Only w/o sensors can I arm/disarm.

I tried to add only one PIR sensor through the learning option. I tried many different groups w/o luck. Each time I'd remove and learn (add) the same PIR sensor and it gave me a tamper on that sensor, whatever group I chose.

I wonder if it is a wiring issue or a program setup issue.

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What about the EOL resistors? How are those installed? Both ends of the resistor under the screw?

Thanks
 

Last edited by Savage; 03-31-05 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 03-31-05, 05:01 PM
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Ah! If these are wired sensors, and you have not put the resistors in the loop, that is likely your source of a tamper report. To arm it with the loops in trouble, you bypass the zones in question. At least for the purpose of your testing, you simply wire in the resistor in series with either leg of the wired sensor loop.
 
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Old 03-31-05, 06:03 PM
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So I need to put a resistor on each of the zones I want to work. The resistor goes between the (-) wire of the sensor unit and the (-) of the zone # on the panel? Using electrical tape or the pig tail screw?

Is it correct to say that only when the flow of electricity increases, with a tripped sensor, does it flow by the resistor and connect the wiring loop setting of the alarm?

I'm more of a visual person, it would be nice with a pictured technical specification, but the instructions have limited examples.

(I just assumed the way it was on the original system was working for the previous owner. No resistors on that system at all.)

Thanks for all your time and help MrRonFL.
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Snapshots of my not working and powered down system. I must still be getting something wrong. I've not been able to get the resistors setup properly.
 

Last edited by Savage; 03-31-05 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 03-31-05, 07:48 PM
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The previous system was probably one of the DSC models (which can be programmed to not need the resistors on the zones), or one of the older systems that did not supervise the zone loops.

See page 6 of your install manual.

The loops are normally closed. The panel expects 2000 ohms plus or minus a couple of hundred ohms on the loop. When the contact opens this drop in resistance is one of the things that the panel is looking for.

Ideally, the resistor is located at the last contact/device in line. This way, with a normally closed loop, if someone were to try to short the wires, it would also create an alarm. This can be a little tricky to pull off with a retrofit.

The best way to attach the resistor is with a small crimp connector, wirenuts and twist and tape _will_ fail on you in the long term. You also put the resistors on the unused zones as well (from zone terminal to zone common)
 
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Old 03-31-05, 08:31 PM
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It was an older model (BHS1000C build in '93)

Nothing much on page 6. I've got the Concord Security System ( Software version 3.1) Installation Instructions. But I do see info on page 12 that mentions connecting detection devices to panel zone inputs. It also mentions in the side-note that if you don't want to install EOL resistors, delete any unused zones from memory. (Which I have done.)

I only have one device on each line which should make it easier. If I don't put the resistor on the device itself (which is ideal), can I put it on the wiring between the device common wire and zone common (in the panel)?

Also do I have to get a certain small crimp connector that is rated for certain amp\voltage? Something like these IDC Connectors for Electrical Applications?

This is definitely a little tricky. I'm trying not to get discouraged and continue to do it myself. Thanks
 

Last edited by Savage; 03-31-05 at 08:45 PM.
  #10  
Old 04-01-05, 05:30 AM
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I was looking at the manual for the Concord express, a similar but slightly different model (and the one that most DIY purchase), but yes, it's basically the same information. Nulling out the unused zones is indeed an option, but it looks like you are still sorting out the configuration, you can always reactivate the zones later if you need them.

It doesn't take a special connector, you are dealing with micro current. A loose, high resistance connection is a much bigger issue. Anything that will make a secure pigtail for telco/data will work, unless you have unusually heavy (more than 18 ga) wireing.

If I run short of the "B crimp coonnectors, I've been known to buy the smallest size of tube crimp (the red ones) and put both wires in one end, and treat it like a pigtail crimp.
 
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Old 04-01-05, 09:20 AM
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Thumbs up Good news

First, I took the (labeled) wires out of all the zones. Then I just connected the slider sensor to zone 5 with the resistor, it worked. Then I did the same thing but w/o the resistor and of course it said "tamper". I went back and reconnected the resistor and it worked again.

My main confusion was that I expected my new system wiring to behave like the original one. I wasn't aware that some of the older ones didn't supervise the zone loops.

I need to pick up some nice B crimp connectors since the electrical tape wasn't allowing me to test properly. The basic twist pig tails aren't the most secure- especially with a resistor. (Since this a retro fit, it is much easier to put the resistor at the panel instead of at the device.)

I will continue to add more zones and see how it goes.


Thanks MrRonFL!
 
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Old 04-01-05, 03:40 PM
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Some home centers stock the small guage crimps with the telecom supplies.

To give you an idea of the import of the supervision that those resistors provide, try this article.
 
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