Phone modules

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Old 04-08-05, 08:30 PM
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Question Phone modules

If I have a USP AVD45B Voice Dialer (Auto Dialer) and a GE/ITI Concord Phone Interface and Voice Module (60-777-01), which connects to the system first? I was told they can work together, but do they piggy back (primary/secondary) or how would they properly connect to the system together?

Both have the capability to seize the phone line, so would they battle each other for dominance or set each other off? Can they work together happily?
 
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Old 04-08-05, 09:35 PM
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If you are using the panel's built in dialer to call a central station, or pager, I would install the voice dialer on the outgoing (house) side of the telco coming out of the alarm panel.

I would trip the dialer with a relay triggered by the panel output or bell output, and set the dialer to no exit delay, and 20 second entry delay.

Basically, the dialer on the panel will generally be done in less than 20 seconds, and if for some reason it's not, the voice dialer will keep trying to dial for at least 2 tries at all programmed numbers.
 
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Old 04-08-05, 09:56 PM
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Sorry I'm just a bit confused.

I thought that the auto dialer (we'll call A) dialed out in emergency and the voice dialer (we'll call B) just provided local/remote phone control of the panel whenever you wanted to check the system.

The GE/ITI Concord Phone Interface and Voice Module (B) isn't really "built in" but snaps in place, if that is what you mean by the built in dialer.

Do I need to have each going to there own phone connection (i.e. 2 different phone jacks) or can I just split the same phone line (i.e. daisy chain)?

(Only 1 phone line available, if that matters.)

Thanks
 
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Old 04-09-05, 10:07 PM
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when you install the voice module, it needs to be electrically ahead of the house phones, just as if you were using the dialer built into the panel, your USP unit should be next in line, after the alarm but before the house phones.

Check the installation instruction for your voice interface unit. The phones come in on the red/green terminals on the panel itself, the voice interface is fed from the brown/grey terminals to the tip1/ring1 terminals on the voice unit. Your house phones are fed from the tip2/ring2 terminals. This is the place where you add the USP voice dialer.
 
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Old 04-10-05, 07:56 AM
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Update

I got the voice module setup and it is working well. Thanks!

I'm now installing the USP auto-dialer and wanted to make sure with what you said before. Per instructions, there are the red/black lines on the USP which go to the 12VDC, either on the panel or voice module panel.

Then the yellow/white (out?) that go to the alarm? Where does the yellow/white connect to on the alarm?

Do the red/green USP lines just connect to the brown/grey phone lines and then the yellow/white USP lines connect to the voice module panel tip2/ring2 to complete the phone circuit?

Do I want to set this up as N.C./N.O dry contact activation hookup or voltage level activation? It would seem to make sense that voltage level would be the one I'd need, correct?

Thanks
 

Last edited by Savage; 04-18-05 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 04-18-05, 08:56 PM
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Question

Should I open a new thread, even though this is still a continuation of my previous one?
 
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Old 04-18-05, 09:55 PM
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Nope, this is fine. The model USP dialer that you have does not provide a line seizure, it's effectively an extension phone, so, it's red/green should go across the tip2/ring2 terminals.

The yellow/white pair is the trigger input that actually turns the usp dialer on. You will connect them between terminal 4 and terminal9 (output 1). The default settings on this output will provide the voltage trigger for the dialer about 10 or so seconds after the panel triggers an alarm.
 
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Old 04-19-05, 04:34 AM
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Almost done.

Thanks MrRonFL.

So the red/green goes across the tip2/ring2 terminals, as well as the grey/brown which are already on the tip2/ring2 terminals, correct?

The yellow/white pair still need the resistor between terminal 4 and terminal 9(output 1), correct? Or does the default settings on the output handle this instead?

Thanks again!
 
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Old 04-19-05, 03:13 PM
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The specs for the concord call for a resistor across the output terminals. The red/green for the voice dialer go on the brown/grey with the other outgoing wires.

Depending on what else your panel dialer is doing, you may need to put a longer delay on output, but the default 10 second delay is probably enough.
 
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Old 04-21-05, 01:25 PM
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Got the dialer connected

I've gotten the USP dialer connected and when I run the test from the USP dialer it dials my cell and give me my recorded message w/o issue. But when I try testing it in "operate" mode with the panel armed, if I trip the sensor, the USP doesn't call me.

I have the wires in the right spots, including the yellow wire from the USP to the panel #4 (+12V) and the white wire attached to the resistor (similarly to the way I did for my sensors) then to the panel #9 (Output 1).

I've tried both momentary and continuous in the USP dialer and believe it should be at N.C. (normally closed). Is there something that I am misunderstanding? Do I need to setup the panel to the output?

Thanks
 
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Old 04-21-05, 03:29 PM
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Check the settings for the output. You may need to make sure that the correct event's are actually set to trigger it. I can't be too specific, because I've never set one of these panels to trip such a dialer. Give your instruction manual a careful read.
 
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Old 04-27-05, 04:58 PM
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Unhappy Still not working and I'm not sure why

I've been with the USP tech support and have tested to make sure the dialer works ok. Here is their simple test:
  • disconnect white and yellow from panel to see if you get a change
  • if it changes to dialing then OK (N.C.)
  • if it stays at OPERATE, touch yellow and white together to complete circuit then it should dial (N.O.)
My USP dialer works and dials out, if yellow & white are first disconnected from the panel, then if yellow and white connect (meaning N.O.). This would mean the signal to the USP unit from the panel isn't setup properly.

Then I called and verified with the tech support, where I got my Concord panel. They also said they checked(?) with GE to confirm that:
  • you need to set output 1 config to 00400
  • hook the USP yellow to terminal #4 (+12V)
  • hook the USP white to terminal #9 (Output 1)
  • (no resistor)
    (They weren't sure what else I should try.
    I wonder if they did contact GE, and what the GE phone # is for this is...)
But when I trigger an alarm it doesn't trigger the USP dialer, it only displays "Operate". I've made sure that I've setup the (panel) Output 1 text first, since it is required before setting up the Output 1 config to 00400 (any audible alarm -no siren tracking, no trip delay response time momentary)

For testing I've also tried the same thing on Output 2 after setting it up and it didn't work either.

So either I've missed some other setup elsewhere on the panel or my Output isn't setup correctly somehow.

Any ideas? This is getting disappointing and tiring. My next choice is to setup a Rube Goldberg invention to call me in case of an emergency....perhaps a monkey, some string and a cymbal...
 
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Old 04-28-05, 01:08 PM
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Here's a simple test to verify that your alarm panel is doing what it should be doing. Put your meter set for DC voltage between terminal 4 and terminal 9.

Put the panel in alarm. You should see 12vdc between these two points while the panel is in alarm. If you do not, then there's something wrong with your output programming.

For this AVD-45 to work with this type of output, the AVD-45 must be programmed to operate in NC operation.
 
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Old 05-01-05, 05:21 AM
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Thanks for you continued help and patience, MrRonFL.

Wouldn't the same also be true- if I test DC voltage between terminal 4 and terminal 9 when not in alarm it should be 0? The AVD-45B in N.C. the alarm is tripped when voltage goes from 0 to +V (5 to 28Vmax). I get 12vdc when not in alarm with yellow and white on terminal 4 and terminal 9 respectively- which I imagine is an issue with the programming, or would it be wiring. (In alarm the voltage doesn't change much between terminal 4 and terminal 9.)

Does the output programming control the voltage for the output terminals (terminal 9)?

Should I be getting any voltage between the yellow and white wires when they're not connected? I have the AVD-45B red and black going to 12vdc and ground, respectively and I get some small voltage between yellow and white when disconnected.
 
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Old 05-01-05, 10:35 AM
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For what you are trying to do, you should see 0 vdc between Term 4 & 9 when the panel is in normal run mode. When it is tripped into alarm, terminal 9 completes the connection to ground (basically, it's normal use is a switching ground point). You _can_ program it to do other things (many other things), but that is the default function. The output programming controls the output terminal behavior. You can even invert the output and make it a (very) low current positive out put to trigger a relay.

Check the terminals with _nothing_ connected to them. Other wise, you may give yourself a false reading.

It wouldn't surprise me if theres a residual voltage on the yellow/white (and remember, digital meters can produce a "ghost" voltage that's actually an artifact of the meter's internal circuitry (especially the cheaper models).
 
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Old 05-02-05, 03:04 PM
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Interesting

Just to test (w/o changing the panel config/programming), I've tried just putting in my 2 wire speaker to output 1 (between Term 4 & 9) and I see 0 vdc in normal run mode. But when I replace those 2 speaker lines with my yellow/white lines from my AVD-45B I get about 4-6vdc which seems strange. Am I getting this "extra" voltage because of the red/black wire from the AVD-45B is connected to the 12vdc and ground?

I know the speaker isn't putting off any voltage of its own, but why then would the yellow/white from my AVD-45B be doing so or need to at all? Wouldn't this be why, when the yellow/white are connected, the voltage reading is > 0 (about 4-6vdc)? (This is the residual which you mentioned?) Can I zero this residual voltage out with programming the output or with a resistor?

I've been trying other config/programming too, w/o much luck. I can't seem to control the output terminal behavior.

(I tested both Output 1 and 2 w/o connections and they both give off about 10vdc in non-alarm mode. I don't think I'm getting ghosting with my Greenlee.)
 
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Old 05-05-05, 09:38 PM
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Talking Got it I think

Ok I've been trying to get this to go every which way and finally I think I might have gotten it.

I changed the USP dialer to N.O./momentary and have the yellow going to terminal #9 (Output 1) and white going to ground (any ground works). I check the reading between the 2 terminals and I've got a small voltage going across, but then when the alarm is triggered it drops to 0 voltage for about 5 seconds which is enough to trigger the USP dialer.

No resistor and I left the panel config for the output at 00400.


Now why does this work when it's not setup as expected?
Should I expect false triggered phone calls now?
 
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Old 05-06-05, 05:43 AM
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Can't really do more than guess. This is not a panel that I've ever had a need to attach a device like that dialer to (I've used such outputs for LED's, relays, and a host of other things, but not that particular dialer).

It's likely some combination of the panels circuitry and the dialers input circuitry, combined with their respective programming.

I'm glad it worked. I was going to suggest that you simply use a relay triggered by that output so that you had a real "dry contact" to work with.
 
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