Ademco Alpha Alert II I believe the 5330 model paired with 5720 panel

Today when i tried to set alarm i press 2 numbers and keypad completely went dead. After a few hours went back on for a few hours and now it is dead again. have another keypad works completely fine. did the keypad just go bad after 17 years or could the problem go deeper. Can i take disconnect my other keypad and hook it up to where the dead one is to make sure it is the keypad. Will i lose the programming?

Are there any other compatable keypads for my panel which is a 5720?

If i find a replacement will i have to reprogram it or i just have to plug it in?

 

This is a _very_ long out of production system and keypad model. There are no current production keypads that will replace this unit.

On a guess, I would say to check the wiring harness connector on the back of keypad. You may have developed enough corrosion on the connector to cause the effect you describe.

The worst case scenario is that the PC board has cracked from years of button presses.

Long term: I would strongly suggest that you start shopping for current generation system. Sadly, few, if any, of your existing wireless and addressable devices will be compatible.

 

Checked connector and seemed fine. When i disconnect connector and hook up keypad works again stays on a few hours and shuts off again. so luckily i was able to locate replacement keypad which i thought would be impossible should get it in a few days. When i receive it will it work right away when i plug it in? will i have to do any programming?

What is the real difference between a new generation alarm and my alarm i think it is pretty advance alphanumeric display tells me which tells me everything i need to know?

I have a glass break sensor which dosn't work it is a sentrol 29k3 is there something i can replace it with?

I am just curious pretty much if i have any other components fail such as a transmitter or smoke alarm or motion and i can't locate a replacement is there anything else out there which is compatable with this 5720 panel or Would i have to replace complete system. Are we talking a lot of money to replace system i would need a wireless system and i have 17 zones?

 

Hi Rschrei518,

I can speak to the 5330 keypad - Indeed you will need to program it to work with your panel. I hope the keypad you get has all the documentation with it, as it is a little time consuming to program WITH the documentation, and would be nearly impossible without. If it comes without documentation, I can provide you with what you need. Briefly, you will need to tell the keypad what panel you have it connected to, then program the alpha descriptors for each zone. I show that the 5720 is the Alert III system, if the keypad is a complete unit there will be keypad graphic overlay sheets for the different panels. The overlay for your panel needs to be inserted under the clear plastic keypad cover. The keypad comes factory defaulted for the Vector panel, and you will need to program it for the Alert panel.

Let me know if you need assistance when you receive it.

Jim

 

thanks for the advice keypad was brand new with everything hooked it up and programmed it and having the same exact problem keypad goes off a lot of times after i hit a few numbers and sometimes out of nowhere then a few hours later it will go on again and a few hours go off again. but whenever i pull the back connector out and plug it in again it works again my downstairs keypad works completely fine at all times so what could the problem be?

 

Rschrei518:

Okay, let's unplug the new and the old and switch them. Then see if the new works in the "old" location. If it does, it is looking like a wiring problem between the panel and where you first installed the new keypad. If not, we need to go to the next level of troubleshooting.

Jim

 

i am having the same problem with both the new and old keypad in the upstairs location same problem with both keypads downstairs keypad works completely fine i have tried both keypads in the downstairs location and am having no problem at all. went up to the attic and they have the wires to the keypad spliced in the middle of the attic with those white dolphin connectors i cut them all and redid them with new ones. Any Ideas?

 

Okay, we are moving ahead one step at a time. Let me be sure I understand fully:

The old and new keypads work fine if plugged in downstairs, and they both exhibit the same failings when plugged in upstairs, and you re-did a keypad splice you located in the attic.

If true, then the problem is in the wiring between the upstairs keypad location and the main panel, and from your earlier symptoms it sounds like one of the data in or data out wires (typically colored yellow and green) is open between the keypad and the main panel. But let's drill down a little deeper... what exactly do you mean when you say the keypad goes dead? Does the keypad backlighting go dark (as in the 12 VDC power to it is interrupted), or is it the keypad tactile feedback beeping that goes silent? The above yellow green wiring issue refers to losing the keypad button tone beeping, not losing 12 VDC power.

Let me know...

Jim

 

The keypad goes completely dead lights go out and dosn't beep or respond to pressing buttons. When i pull back connector out and plug in again it goes on again until it decides to shut off again or i start pressing buttons on the keypad.

For some reason it picks and chooses when it wants to work like there are times when it will work for a 24 hour period and then when i enter my code the unit will shut down and other times i am able to use the keypad it really has me stumped. Is it possible that the connector is bad which plugs into the keypad or the wiring which goes back to the panel?

 

That is a very strange symptom you have there. It could be due to voltage though. The keypad you have contains a microprocessor so if the voltage to it is less than it likes, it will cause performance issues. I don't know if you have a good quality meter, but I would be interested in knowing what the voltage is at the upstairs keypad, while it is acting up, with the keypad connected. Also, take a look at the keypad terminals at the Alert III itself, disconnect them, make sure all of the wires (especially if stranded wire was used) are contacting the proper screw terminals, & cut 1/2" off, strip back the insulation and re-do all the wires if anything doesn't look good. We are looking for things that might be causing undue voltage drop here. How far away from the main panel is the top floor keypad - how many feet of wire? I have also seen rodent wire chew-through where the power was on again - off again due to temperature expansion - contraction, making and breaking the voltage. Mice/rats can cause low voltage headaches, so rule that out too.

 

My keypad dosn't have screw terminals it has a quick connect harness which i just replaced today. the old one had the wires soldiered on i cut that off and used b connectors for the new one is this ok?

The thing i don't understand is if it was a voltage problem how come when i pop the harness out and plug it in again it goes right on? I have a good meter probably the best a fluke so if i was to check voltage how do i go about it and which wires you interested in?

The one think i noticed i don't know if its significant the sound of the tones when i press buttons sometimes don't sound normal any ideas?

I should have an idea if the harness corrected the problem within a day or so any input would be greatly appreciated thank you

 

Replacing connector harness didn't help keypad went dead again. It lasted a little longer 2 days i don't think that has to do with replacing the connector. In my mind the only thing which can be left is replacing the wire that runs to this keypad. But on the other hand that dosn't make sense because whenever i pull the connector out of the keypad and plug it back in again the keypad goes right back on until it decides to shut off again. If i do decide to replace the wire what type and guage of wire should i use the run is probably the most 150 ft and when i do hook it up to the panel do i have to depower it if so how do i do that. And will i lose any programming?

 

I have a suspicion that there may be something that doesn't immediately meet the eye, like a hidden splice or T-tap somewhere in the run, or simply a cable passing through a place where the movement of the house or frame is creating a random ground fault or break in a conductor inside of the insulation. You can try a simple experiment. Temporarily wire your problem keypad using a 10-20 foot length of new cable. (no, a power down will not erase the programming, the most you will need to do is set the clock, if that much...). If the keypad stays stable in that configuration, then replacing the wiring is the answer to the problem. If not, then there is something else going on.

 

Well i was looking at the way they have the keypads wired. THey have the upstairs keypad tied into the downstairs keypad they had the wires soldiered i cut all that out and used 3m UR connectors and had same problem so the only thing left is to replace the Wire. There is absolutely no reason why the keypad shouldn't work after i replace the wire because the upstairs keypad is tied directly into the downstairs keypad and the downstairs keypad works fine.

The Run is maybe about 125 feet should i use like a 20 guage and should i use a 4 conductor. It looks like they have ran a 6 conductor. Does it make a difference which type of wire i use i read somewhere i should use twisted wire. Can I use Thermostat wire?

 

Ah Ha! They T-tapped the keypad wiring. This is one of those things that _shouldn't _ have an adverse effect, but often does. When the hardware is newer, it's often not an issue, but when age and use start wearing on it, that extra bit of current draw on that wiring harness often will make one or more keypads on the circuit behave erratically.

Again, many of the wiring diagrams and instructions show it done the way yours is done, but I've often seen just this kind of random stuff happen with that configuration.

Pretty much any wire at 22ga or heavier will work just fine.

Update: Looking over the install instructions for the 5330, it specifically states in bold all caps to not "daisy chain" the consoles if multiple ones are installed. There is also a small jumper that should be set to 6volt mode for your 5720 system.

 

the jumper is set correctly. They also have b connectors up in the attic i guess they cut the wire too short. If i replace the wire and do the same thing with UR connectors at the downstairs keypad is there a posibility it won't correct the problem. I don't understand how the age of the unit can make this happen just because they used b connectors at the downstairs keypad. i replaced all the b connectors but same problem. SO the wire has to be damaged somewhere else.

 

I don't think you were reading the message fully. "daisy chaining" is what your current configuration is. The reason it worked for a long time is that the internal resistance of the circuitry in the keypads and main control was optimal for a long time. With time, the aging semiconductors start drawing more current and the power supply circuitry on the main control starts having to work harder.

The net result is that the system becomes erratic, with the keypad at the end of the circuit failing.

Your system was installed contrary to the manufacturer's specific instructions. The fact that it worked as long as it did was simple luck of the draw. The fact that the wiring harness has numerous splices in it just adds to the problem.

 

So what should i do should i replace the wire and hook it up in the same configuration with b or UR connectors or would i gain anything by hooking up the second keypad directly to the panel as well?

I read in the installation manual that i should use a cable where the conductors are twisted. Is this important? I also read in the installation manual that any run to the keypad that is over 100 feet should be larger then 22 guage wire so should I use a 20 guage if the run does happen to be longer then 100 feet?


If I do have to run the wire to the panel should i depower it if so whats the best way to do it without damaging the panel at all?

 

I repeat, try connecting the keypad directly without the T-tap/daisy chain. If it works properly in that configuration, then go through the effort to actually run the wire.

If you were planning on using thermostat wire, that's generally 18ga, which will be even better than the 20 ga. Twisted pair wire is a nice to have, especially if your wiring path has to share space with high voltage circuits, but, not really that critical.

To shut down any security panel: unplug any one of the battery leads, then unplug the wall transformer (or disconnect any one of the ac power wires at the terminal strip on the main board). Reconnect in the opposite order.

 

If i run a brand new wire and have the same problem is the problem definitely the semiconductors which are getting weak. I don't think there is anything else i can do. Is there a way the semiconducters can be replaced or am i definitely looking at replacing the system.


To be honest i am starting to think the problem is the panel getting weak because the downstairs keypad hasn't shut down yet but the beeps when you press a button have started to sound a little different and a little weaker nothing drastic. But there has been a difference. could that be from the semiconductors getting weak?


If It gets to the point where i know the system is bad i am willing to replace the system but i am going to try to hold off if the system works because i have a feeling it is not going to be cheap to replace a wireless system with 19 different zones or am i wrong? I do know the system is passed its life expectancy. It was installed in 89.

Thank You Very Much for Your Support

 

There is no practical way to test and replace the individual components on the keypad or the panel that supplies power and data to them. Most likely, it's the power supply circuit on the main control that's starting to fail. These keypads were an upgrade model that draws more power than the basic model that the system was designed around.

Replacing the system will be relatively pricey. The transmitters used by this system are obsolete, and haven't been used by Ademco for awhile, and none of their newer systems have any provision for using them. They switched to a different design in the early 1990s.

Figure on 30-60 dollars per transmitter. You might get lucky and get some models for less, but that's the typical price.

18 years of service isn't bad. What other piece of consumer electronics remains functional 24-7 for nearly 20 years?

 

Is there a way i can check the voltage at the wires upstairs to see if it is being shorted on power. If so how do i do this? Which wires do i check? this way i can make sure that is the problem?

 

You can try checking the voltage on the terminals for the DC power to the keypads, but it really won't give you much useful info unless there is a drastic difference between the two keypads. Clearly this happens on a fairly random schedule.

This thing works on 6 volts (in your configuration), and the current draw is part of the equation. Just compare the test readings with the specs in the installer manual.

 

I ran replacement wire to keypad 20 guage 6 wire. What is the best way to connect the 3 wires togather at the downstairs keypad originally they were soldiered. I would use ur connectors but that makes a mess and it takes up to much space. Is it okay to soldier them or is there another option. Right now i have them connected temporily. So far it has worked the whole day. I should know in a few days if the wire corrected the problem. Thanks Again

 

Solder is fine, if overkill. I use the little "b" crimp connectors that used to be the telco standard before they fell in love with the UR type. You can even use the smallest size of the tube crimps you can get at auto parts places.

As long as the connection is clean and solid, it doesn't really matter. "Twist and tape" and wire nuts are the sort of thing that can get you into trouble.