I am looking to purchase a Vista 20P system that will be completely wireless with the exception of two hardwired keypads and the siren. I am confused as to how many wireless sensors I can have connected. I have 11 windows and 3 doors on the first floor. I would also like to add a motion sensor for each floor, a heat/smoke detector for each floor, as well as a glass break sensor on the first floor. I see some wireless receivers say they have 16 zones. Is each sensor considered a zone? I don't think this is the case, but I'm confused as to which wireless receiver I will need to cover all the sensors and have room for expansion. Also, I have double hung vinyl windows made by Builders FirstSource and am trying to figure out which wireless sensors will work best. I know I can't screw them into the window at all or I will void the warranty, so I'm thinking of double stick taping the sensor onto the window and mounting the magnet on the window frame. If I want to mount the sensor vertically will I need a sensor with 2 reeds like the 5815? Any thought or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

Up to 40 zones of wireless on the Vista 20P. As far as the mounting question, I'm not quite following on that, sorry.

 

The best way to handle narrow framed vinyl windows with wireless is to use external contacts hardwired back to the transmitter. That way you don't have to mess with trying to get the transmitter box to fit.

 

This is where I'm getting confused. My understanding is that out of the box the 20P does not have built in wireless and I will need a wireless receiver to get the system to work with the wireless sensors. I see there are several different models, 5881ENL (Up to 8 zones),5881ENM (16 zones), 5881ENH (64 zones) as per the Honeywell website. I do see on some websites that the 5883H Transceiver supports up to 40 wireless zones. What is the difference between the transceiver and receiver. I know the transceiver is capable of bi-directional communication, but what does this really mean and will I need this feature. As far as receivers go, am I correct in saying I would need the 5881ENH Receiver or the 5883H which includes the 5881ENH since I will have more than 16 zones? As far as the window sensors go, I think it would work to mount the transmitter on the portion of the window that goes up and down and mount the magnet on the window frame right next to it. I have enough room for the 1/2 width of the magnet, but I need the transmitter to be no more than 1 1/4". It looks like the 5814's would work,and they include the magnet, but they are very expensive! I'm also concerned with these using the smaller coin cell batteries. Any idea how long these last? I suppose I could use the 5816's, but the transmitter would overhang the frame of the window over the glass about 1/4". Would this cause a problem?

 

You only need the 5883 class transeiver if you are planning to use things like the wireless keypads or the bi-directional keyfobs. The simple solution is to buy the 6160-RF keypad, which has the H receiver built in.

On average, those button type lithium batteries last 3-5 years; less if the device is cycled a lot (which doesn't happen with windows, generally).

You are the one looking at the windows, you are the one who can best estimate if your chosen transmitters will fit.

 

Thanks for the advice guys. I looked into the 6160Rf and see that it says it supports up to the panels capacity of wireless zones. I then refer to the panel specs and it says it has 40 wireless expansion zones. I just want to confirm that I will have 40 wireless zones with this panel and the 6160RF. Regarding the wireless motion sensors, for the average residential application are the PIR Motions acceptable? I cant seem to find any of the Dual Tech motions on ebay and their retail price is much higher than the PIR's on ebay. I do not have any pets and plan on putting one on the first floor and one on the second floor at the top of the stairs. Thanks again!

 

The Honeywell/Ademco standard wireless motion detectors are an industry standard, and are very reliable. They have a long track record.

 

I'm considering only installing sensors on the doors and using a glass break and motion sensor on the first floor and motion sensor on the second floor. Would one motion sensor and one glass break be enough for an approximately 1400 square foot first floor if the glass break is mounted near the middle of the first floor? I really liked the idea of having a sensor on every 1st floor window, but at $40-50 a piece these things are not cheap when I have 1 windows and 3 doors. I know it would be better to have all these sensors, but do you think it would be adequate with the above setup? I know many of the companies that install free systems with monitoring contracts only set up system with door sensors and 1 motion sensor. Thanks.

 

Glass break sensors have, at most, a 15-25 foot sensing radius, depending on the room's acoustics, and how heavy the drapes over the glass are.

 

With the cost of the wireless sensors being so much, I'm wondering what the cost to have hard wired sensors professionally installed would be. My home and community is new construction and I have seen several of my neighbors have alarms installed recently. The installers appeared to be bringing a snake into the house, so I'm assuming the had hard wired sensors installed. How much destruction is normally done when running the wires? I have an attic for the second floor, but the house is on a slab with no basement/scrawl space.

 

If the house is new construction, there is a better than even chance that the house is already prewired for alarms. You may well have contacts already in place in the doors and windows.

If you go with one of the mass market installers, they heavily discount the installation and hardware in exchange for a multi-year contract. Check with your builder, they can tell you if it's prewired, and probably who did it. That's your best bet, because they already know what wires are in place (in theory).

 

Unfortunately, the house is definitely not prewired. My builder did not have that as an option unless you signed a contract with an alarm company and they would then install a system and wire the house. I don't remember what the system was, but it was a lower quality system that did not have much expansion capabilities. As such I opted not to have this done. I intended on having an alarm installed all along and ran two wires from my closet, where I had an outlet installed and where the phone line is, for a keypad by the front door and one in the master bedroom. I ran these wires planning on installing a wireless system and knowing that the keypads had to be hard wired. I did this before they sheetrocked, but could not wire anything more or else they may have found the wiring during inspection and it may have been a problem. I am considering trying to contact local alarm installers to see how much it would cost to purchase a system from them and have them hard wire install it for me without monitoring. Do you think any company may install a system that a customer already owns, since I can probably buy the system much cheaper than what they will charge me. How much damage to sheetrock and such is typically done with these installs, as any cost to have the damage repaired would obviously factor in to the total system installation.Thanks MrRonFL!

 

You should not have a problem finding a alarm shop to do this. If they want money, they will do it. If they claim you have to sign a contract, tell them they are out the money, they will rethink.

 

An installer with any real skill can do a hardwired install with little to no real damage. It's a bit trickier with multi story houses, but it's more a cost of labor issue than anything else. Being careful takes more time. That's where the cost tradeoff on wireless comes into play. The individual transmitters cost more, but the labor to retrofit wiring also costs. You have to get the quotes and compare the relative costs. It's just like any other construction/renovation project.

 

If you have the option of wireless or wired for about the same money, I would definitly go wired. Leave the wireless for the smokes and motion detectors.

 

So i had 2 installers come out and it looks like I'm going to have to go wireless, in which case I'll probably do the install myself. Are there magnets smaller than the Ademco 5899's that will work with the 5816 transmitters? I would like to mount the magnet in the channel of the window where the locking mechanism is and it is fairly shallow. I see the 5899's are 1/2" deep. I have a magnet from a DSC WLS925L transmitter and I tried fitting inside. Height and length wise it fits fine, but it's a little too big depth wise. They can only be a hair larger than 1/4". Do these exist?

 

Should have mentioned before, the opening is 3/8" high, and again it can be any length but not more than 1/4" deep.

 

Just search for mini contacts. Here's an example of one that is 1/4"

http://www.smarthome.com/7352.html

 

The 1/4" thickness on those would definitely work, but they don't list the height. I guess this measurement is not important for most installations. Seems like most sites don't list all three measurements, so I guess this might be difficult to find.

 

OK so once I find these magnets I should be good to go. Now just two last question for now, Where is a good place to mount the siren? I would like to mount the panel in my master bedroom walk in closet which is on the second floor. I'm guessing if I put the siren in the closet the sound would be muffled and very low from the first floor. I would like it to be loud enough to be heard from outside, but not deafening to my neighbors. How would an exterior siren in the attic work? What if I mounted it near ridge line vent or gable vent? And secondly, for the door contacts is it ok to have the transmitter mounted on the door and the magnet mounted on the molding above the door, or is it better to have the transmitter on the molding remaining stationary? Thanks for your patience with all my noob questions!

 

The "bullhorn" style siren in the attic is a very common method.

If you have a tricky mounting situation for the door contact, you do have the option of using and external wired contact so that the transmitter can be mounted above the door moulding if need be. It's actually better, if possible for the transmitter to be mounted stationary, but it can be on the moving door if need be.

 

I am looking at the Ademco 713 High Power Speaker powered by the AMSECO VSD-208 Voice Siren Driver. If I mounted the speaker in the attic near a vent how loud do you think this would be from outside and inside. I want it to be loud enough inside to annoy and scare someone out, but also to be audible from outside. The attic seems like a good spot due to the difficulty it would pose to a burglar to find it, and also easy to mount. I'm just concerned that it may be very muffled sounding inside the house. Anyone have any input on how this might sound? Does the Driver just get hardwired to the panel and mounted in the panel box?

 

Your neighbors will hear it very well, trust me! My neighbor has his horn up in his attic, and I can hear it clear as day when it goes off. I however, have mine in the hallway, and my neighbors still hear mine.

Hopefully you have friendly neighbors or else you can get cited if you have to many false alarms.

 

I see on Ademco's website they list the 713 high power speaker as being for commercial use, but not residential use. The 702 and 703 are listed for both and include a siren driver. I like the idea of the voice siren and planned to use the VSD-2089 voice siren driver with the 713 speaker. Is this speaker too loud at 40 watts, maybe that is why it is not listed for residential use? Are there any speakers that have built in drivers an have voice? Also, does the 6270 talk like the 6160V does, with voice indicating system status?

 

You are overthinking it. The residential grade equipment is not recommended for commercial installations, but not vice-versa. I install a lot of commercial grade in residential, because it does tend to be more rugged. For something like an attic mount, it doesn't matter that the commercial grade unit isn't as "pretty".

 

I finally ordered my Vista 20P thanks to all the wonderful help from this board. Now I am trying to plan out where I am going to put my motions and smoke detectors. I ordered 3 5890 Non PI motion detectors and 2 5808W3's wireless smoke detectors. I plan on putting 2 5890's on the 1st floor and 1 on the second floor and 1 5808W3 on the first floor and 1 on the second floor. I was reading in another post about the 5890's wearing out the batteries when mounted near a ceiling fan. I was planing on corner mounting one motion detector in my family room on the 1st floor, but I have a ceiling fan in that room.This would have been a great location because from that angle I could have had my family room, kitchen and entry door to garage and part of my living room covered. Now I don't know where to mount it. As far as Height goes, I have 9' ceilings on my first floor. How high should the motion detectors be mounted. I also planned on putting another motion right by my front door that would cover the entry door, office, and stairs to go to 2nd floor. Now I'm thinking this might be a problem since the detector will pick up motion as I try to set the alarm keypad that is at the front door. For the smoke sensors, where is the best place on the 1st floor to mount them. For the one on the second floor, I plan to put it at the top of the stairs. The house has hardwired smoke detectors that are not part of any alarm and there is one near the front door where the stairs are and on at the top of the stairs on the second floor. Should I put the alarm smoke detectors in the same locations. Sorry for the long question, and thanks again for all the help!

 

Motion detectors are optimized for mounting at about 7' 6", but anywhere from about 6 foot to 9 foot works. Some models have even more latitude.

Motions "look" down at a shallow angle, so as long as the field of view is below the ceiling fan, you should be good. One quick and dirty test: Mount it where you want it (double stick tape will work for testing), and temporarily program it as an instant zone. Turn on the chime function and the fan. If you get frequent chimes, then it is picking up the fan, and you need to relocate it. If you don't you can set it as an interior zone and permanantly mount it.

 

Thanks for the tip MrRon! What do you suggest for the motion by the front door? I imagine it would be a problem for the system to arm with a motion picking up a person standing in front of it. And as far as the smoke detector on the first floor, should I mount it where the wired house smoke detector is on the first floor by the front door/stairs or in the living room which is more in the middle of the 1st floor?

 

The general rule of thumb for smoke detectors is to mount them closest to the area you are actually concerned with protecting, but not in a location where cooking fumes or major humidity changes (like too close to a bathroom door) will constantly be pulled through the airstream over it.

Since you have the single station smoke in place, I'd be inclined to center it in the living space.

 

O.K., so smoke detector in the living room it is. Now for the motion detector by the front door, will the system be able to arm if the motion detector is within feet and clear view of the alarm keypad at the front door or will it not be able to set because the zone is not closed due to the motion of the person standing there to set it? What do you normally do for motions and keypad by the front door? Thanks a million.

 

Stand still until you get the ready light.

 

About how long I would have to stand still to get the ready light? I thought this might take a few minutes, but if it's only a couple of seconds that would be fine.

 

Less than 30 seconds, on average.

 

I'm trying to wire my RJ31X jack and have some questions. I have my phone lines for the house go into an ON-Q panel that is in my closet. I am mounting the alarm panel next to this panel. The On-Q panel has a board inside to connect all my phone and cable lines. On tehe board there is a jack for a line in for the phone. There is also a jack below that is labeled Security.Does the RJ31X just connect to the Security jack on the On-Q board with the cable provided with the RJ31X jack and then the other end with the flat terminals connecting under the screws of the corresponding wires that are already on the Jack? I'm confused as to why the On-Q board has a jack for security and don't understand how the line is seized if the RJ31X jack is only connected to the security jack and not connected to the main line in. I am also considering switching to DSL and was wondering how a DSL would get wired into this configuration.

 

I looked into the On-Q Security jack a little further and see that it says "Provides RJ-31X functionality through a DIP switch and RJ-45 jack to support security systems." So this has a built in RJ31X? I guess I would just connect the RJ45 to the security jack and the spade connectors on the other end to the Vista Panel?

 

Yup, that board has it's own RJ-31x functionality. A nice feature, actually, because you can't accidentally wire around it and defeat the line seizure function.

 

Thanks MrRon! Also, I have an ELK SP-40 and am trying to install it( already installed to my panel is an ELK-100). I see that the red and green wires are for the tamper loop. How are these wired to the 20P panel, I could not find where they would go. For the white and black wires, does it matter which one goes to the high power terminal and to the common negative?

 

The tamper wires are and optional thing. If you are mounting the speaker in a location where you are actually worried about someone tampering with the device, then you connect those wires to a 24 hour trouble loop. Otherwise, you can ignore them. They have nothing to do with the basic function of the speaker.

Really it doesn't matter which of the two speaker wires is on which terminal. I generally hook up the darker colored wire to the common terminal, just for the sake of consistancy.

 

Thanks MrRon, I have everything wired now and powered the system on and set my 6160V to address 16 and 6270 to address 1. I am VERY confused now as to what exactly to do next. I went into *56 to try to program my zones and got stuck when it asks for the report codes. I am going to have the system monitored after the install is complete and I have no idea what to put for this. Are these report codes something that the monitoring company would have to provide me, as thats what how it seems based on what I read on 4-4 of the install manual. I am only using wireless sensors and have a 5881 enh installed with jumpers set to address 0. Is there anything I need to do to program the 5881? Finally, how do I enroll the wireless devices? I thought I would be able to just just use a magnet to trip the device and it would enroll this way. Any help in pointing me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated!

 

For the most part, you will be using the Contact ID reporting format, even if all you are doing is trying to have this thing call your mobile phone.

The codes for this are automatically generated, you just need to have any non-zero entry in the first entry for the report code prompt (they usually default to 10 for the report code). It's just an enabler and has nothing to do with the code that is actually sent. The system figures out what code to send based on the zone type and a few other hard coded things.

You enroll the sensors by tripping them when the system prompts you to when you get to that section of the *56 programming.