GE 250 CO detector installation - help

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Old 01-22-10, 07:02 PM
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GE 250 CO detector installation - help

I want to install a GE SafeAir 250 CO detector. I have a Carbon Monoxide detector wired into to my home security system and it has reached the end of its life (6-7 years) The existing model is a Sentrol 240 and its successor is the GE Safeair 250-CO (GE bought Sentrol). The Sentrol has 5 connection points diagrammed as: TB1 with + 12v and -GND and TB2 with NO, COM, and NC. Four small wires are attached to the device and connect it to the control panel. The four connections are at the +12, -GND, NO, and COM There is a capacitor attached to the NC and COM. As it is already wired, I can identify the wires.

In the GE 250 model is a little different. There are 7 heads or connection points and I don't know whether to simply replicate the wiring on the old device or add any connections(http://www.gesecurity.com/portal/GES...e=Data%20Sheet) I am uncertain how to read this wiring diagram. It seems that the power connections go into the + and - heads, and that the capacitor attaches to the NO and COM heads on bank 2, and it seems that bank 1 is where I should attach the NO and COM wires. What I am confused about is how to interpret the wiring diagram where there are 3 connections between bank 1 and bank 2:

1) NO to C. It has a connection with a small cylinder. What does this indicate?
2)C to NO
3) NC to -

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 01-23-10, 06:41 PM
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Unless you have a really odd security system that "capacitor" is a _resistor_ (very different device, indeed).

This unit happens to have a built in power supervision relay.

Connect power to the power terminals.

Connect the alarrm connections to C NO

Attach a piece of wire long enough to reach from C/NO to one lead of the resistor and connect that wire to NO with the alarm connection. Connect the free end of the resistor to either of the two connections next to the power connection. Take a second piece of wire and go from the C alarm connection to the second power supervision point.

The whole point of this, is that if somehow the power was cut to this detector, the system will show a trouble on the alarm because the supervision resistor is no longer in the circuit.

Your original setup _should_ have had a power supervising relay (they are commonly available as a seperate item). The device will work without the relay, but safety wise, it's better to supervise the power.
 
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Old 01-23-10, 07:31 PM
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Thanks, I'll attempt this tomorrow and report back.
 
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Old 01-25-10, 08:46 AM
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Hi Mr RonFL

I am unclear as to one of the connections

"Take a second piece of wire and go from the C alarm connection to the second power supervision point."

Does this mean go from C alarm to NO on power supervision?
 
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Old 01-25-10, 07:11 PM
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Yes, just like it's drawn on the wiring diagram.

The power relay is just a closed switch that opens on power failure, so it really doesn't matter which side the resistor actually is on, but you do need both sides of the power relay connected to both sides of the Common and Normally Open for the alarm relay.
 
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Old 01-25-10, 07:16 PM
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I hooked it up and everything works. Thanks so much RonBeer 4U2
 
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Old 02-14-10, 07:07 PM
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I have the same model I am installing. I believe I wired everything according to the schematic. The unit is giving me the green indicator as described, but my panel still shows a CO trouble alert. How do I disable this? Does the monitoring company do that or do I have a wiring issue?
 
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Old 02-14-10, 07:30 PM
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You don't want to disable the alert, you want the alarm control panel to drop the alert if it no longer exists. You may have to reset the alarm control panel. See the system's operating instructions.

In my case, once the wiring was correct, no longer did an alert display.
 
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Old 02-14-10, 07:39 PM
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The answer will vary depending on the _alarm system_ that the device is attached to. What is the alarm system brand and model?
 
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Old 02-16-10, 07:42 AM
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It ended up resetting itself about a half a day later.
It was an ADT system, but I did not get a chance to check the model #.
 
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Old 02-27-10, 01:36 PM
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As with dgabriel , I'm using a GE 250 CO to replace a Sentrol 240 CO that's started chirping. My existing 240 CO installation only has the four wires from the control panel (and I understand how to conect up these wire to the new 250 CO). My existing 240 CO installation does NOT have the resistor installed. So my question(s) are...

i) Do I need to install the 'resistor wiring' as MrRonFL describes ...

Attach a piece of wire long enough to reach from C/NO to one lead of the resistor and connect that wire to NO with the alarm connection. Connect the free end of the resistor to either of the two connections next to the power connection. Take a second piece of wire and go from the C alarm connection to the second power supervision point.

ii) What kind /size of resistor do I need to buy

Thanks in advance
 
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Old 02-27-10, 09:59 PM
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What alarm system are you connecting to, and what zone type is the zone programmed as? _That_ is what determines whether and what kind of resistor is required.
 
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Old 02-28-10, 08:30 PM
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I assume the system is a Vista-20p (the schematic on the inside of the control panel door says "Safewatch Pro 3000EN, Entrepreneur 3000EN, Security Manager 3000EN") and I assume the zone is programmed as a "24 Hour Carbon Monoxide Monitor" (I'm not 100% sure how to check and I don't want to mess-up the programming)
 
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Old 03-06-10, 09:24 AM
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Do you think I need to install the 'resistor wiring' and, if so do you know what kind /size of resistor I need - thanks, Phil
 
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Old 03-06-10, 10:36 AM
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Vista 20p panels (and their clones) use 2000 ohm resistors (red black red for the first 3 bands). You should have already have one from the previous device.
 
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Old 03-06-10, 11:11 AM
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The previous device was a Sentrol 240 COe and it wasn't wired up with a resistor. If I wire up the new 250 CO with an appropriate resistor, would I need to make programming changes on the control panel for the power supervision feature to be active? And what would be the down side of not installing the resistor wiring?
Thanks, Phil
 
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Old 03-06-10, 03:32 PM
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If the previous one was hooked up as a NC circuit without using a resistor, then hook the new one up the same way, ignoring the resistor supervision wiring, unless you want to change it to a proper NO or NC supervised circuit.

What you lose in not using the supervision circuitry is reassurance that the wiring and power to the device are in good working order.
 
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Old 03-17-10, 09:22 PM
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Many thanks for all of your help.
Phil
 
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Old 03-17-10, 09:50 PM
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Who wants to bet that Phil's missing resistor is across the zone terminals in his control panel?
 
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Old 04-22-10, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ChosunOne View Post
Who wants to bet that Phil's missing resistor is across the zone terminals in his control panel?
if it is across the terminals, what would you do remove it and rewire as previously suggested?

(mine is across the terminals!)

Scott
 
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Old 04-22-10, 09:35 PM
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The quick answer is Yes, I would _definitely_ wire the EOLR at the CO detector.


In homes I usually put my _burglary_ zone EOLR's on the CP's zone terminals, but fire and CO sensor EOLR's should always go at the End Of the Line--at the last detector, in other words.

Besides being life-safety devices, fire and CO are open- loop zones. Burg devices are on closed-loop zones. The resistor is in series with the burg devices. If a burg loop goes open the panel sees a fault no matter where the EOLR is. "Goes open" can look like a door opening, a wire splice corroding away, a poor splice coming apart, a wire being chewed apart by mice or just severed in any number of ways, including a loose screw terminal connection on the sensor itself.

Fire and CO are open-loop zones with the resistor in parallel with the devices. If the resistor is across the CP terminals, an open in the loop will be invisible to the CP and the device beyond that loop won't be seen by the panel if it smells smoke or CO.

Problems of loops going open are, in my long experience, about two orders of magnitude more common than loops being shorted. Other than the factor of fire of CO being more dangerous to life than burglary, that's why I consider it essential to put EOLR's at the EOL on open loop zones.
 
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Old 06-11-11, 11:52 PM
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Replacing Eco-sure CO detector component

My 240 unit has hit it's end of life. Instead of going through the pain of changing to the new 250 unit, has anyone been successful with simply switching out the Eco-sure component? If so, where were you able to purchase this? Does anyone know of the make of the CO detector component used in the new 250 unit? If this does contain the same Eco-sure component as used in the 240, would it not be cheaper to rip open the new unit for the detector component than paying someone 220+ for labor and parts?
 
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Old 06-12-11, 07:11 AM
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Given the changes in the electronics over the years. The odds are great that the components simply will not fit into the case. Also, UL list such devices as an _assembly_. Swapping out components outside of the manufacturers' shop basically voids the UL listing.

Really, these units are quite simple to swap out, but _you_have_to_read_the_manual_. Both for the CO unit _and_ for the alarm you are connecting the device to. Remember, the instructions are written with the assumption of comprehension of basic electrical/electronic nomenclature and symbols.
 
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Old 04-08-12, 11:25 AM
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Need a hand please.

My CO detector is EOL so I bought a new one.

The old one is a GE SL 240-COe
The new one is a GE 250-CO

I have a DSC PC5010 Power832

The original wiring on the SL240-CO is (NC/C with a 5.6kΩ), (+, -).

On install of the new 250-CO, I follow the Edwards wiring diagram for a single device and single zone and I get an error on the PC5010 panel. I also paid attention to MrRonFl.

My system difference is the 240 is wired NC/C with the 5.6kΩ between the NC/C. The 250 is wired NO/C with a 5.6kΩ (???) and wire to the supervision points.

I'm thinking I have to turn off the Normally Closed Loop in Section [013], option1, but that will turn off for all zones.

I'll retry the wiring combos of NC/C then NO/C.

I'm obviously missing something, any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Old 04-08-12, 06:57 PM
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What is the zone type you are connecting to? This affects whether or not you actually need the resistor on a DSC that's programmed as NC instead of EOL.
 
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Old 07-26-12, 12:56 PM
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240-COe Pre-replacement question

Prior to reinstallation of the replacement CO detector, much has been said about a "resistor" ... I have two CO detectors run in a series, the upstairs one has no "resistor", but the downstairs one does ... was this the proper setup ??

I have a DSC Security Products PC1555 system installed with Ranger American push-button keypads back in 1998 and ADT monitoring. CO detectors were installed back in 2007 (post recall).
 
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Old 07-26-12, 05:16 PM
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The last device on the loop gets the resistor.
 
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Old 10-06-12, 12:07 PM
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I am finally getting around to replacement / rewiring, much like others posting here I have the replacement setup listed below:
The old one is a GE SL 240-COe
The new one is a GE 250-CO

My 240 was wired with simple "series" wiring (+ to + / - to - / NO to NO / C to C) and a resistor at EOL from NO to C.

My question is; 250-CO wiring instructions make a distinction from Multiple Device single Zone and Multiple Device Separate Alarm Trouble Zone ... how would I know which applies to me ??

I have a DSC Security Products PC1555 system installed with Ranger American push-button keypads back in 1998 and ADT monitoring. CO detectors were installed back in 2007 (post recall).

Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 10-06-12, 03:26 PM
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Wire it just like your old one. The extra terminals are "nice to haves" but not required.
 
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Old 10-06-12, 07:49 PM
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Mr Ron, I was hoping you were going to say that ... that is what I just did ... seems to be working.

So what am I giving up by not wiring according to the Multiple Devices Single Zone instructions ... the way I see it, I would need to run a jumper on the EOL CO from one side to the other, but I would also need to run another wire from the 1st CO to the EOL CO, which I can do, I have attic access between the two devices just need the wire.
 
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Old 10-06-12, 09:40 PM
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All you would gain is an indication that the device has lost power or the sensing unit has failed, and even then you would need to figure out which of the two has the problem.

It's more of a useful issue when you are dealing with a device that might be in a remote or unattended space, because these units have local indication of trouble.
 
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Old 10-08-12, 09:58 AM
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So MrRonFL, ... I would lose the power supervision functionality ? ... i am a bit confused, I thought I read somewhere that Power Supervision was built into these new devices versus what I had.

Thanks again !
 
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Old 10-08-12, 06:35 PM
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You can use the relay on the last one in the string to supervise power without interconnecting the two devices. If your power goes from the panel to detector 1 then to detector 2, etc., then you really only need the power supervision at the last device (just like the diagram for a 4-wire smoke detector on your alarm wiring diagram).

Inteconnection to monitor both sets of trouble relays (if you have two, for example) is a nice to have, but not _necessary_.
 
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