DSC 832 Smoke Alarm questions


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Old 06-22-10, 06:49 AM
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DSC 832 Smoke Alarm questions

My system is about 10-12 years old. The 'fire alarm' has been going off (false alarm). I reset it and it would happen again in a few days. I noticed one of the hardwired smoke alarm 'red' light is on. Is it possible this particular alarm malfunctioned? or is there other wiring problem? Thanks!
 
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Old 06-22-10, 08:34 AM
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Yes, it sounds like you've found the culprit.
Smoke sensors used in alarm systems are designed to latch "on" when they trip, and stay on until reset from the control panel. That's how to tell which smoke tripped an alarm. Check the smokes before resetting at your keypad.

Smoke sensors have a limited lifespan before they will begin chronically falsing. If your system has the original smokes since it was installed 10-12 years ago, they're all due to be changed. But I'd start with the one you noticed.

Be aware that sometimes homes (at least here on the continent) have two different sets of smokes: One set that is part of the alarm system, and another set (required by Fire Code) that is wired to the home's 120V AC Line Power. It's been my experience that the smokes made for the alarm industry are more reliable (as reflected by their cost).
 
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Old 06-22-10, 02:36 PM
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Thanks for your reply.

I do have couple of smoke alarms hooked to my home's 120v line. I thought I had more than 1 connected to the alarm system, but seems like that's the only one.

Is it easy for me to change the smoke detector myself? or do I need to call the installer? Also, is there anyway to bypass this to arm the system?

Hmm... the smoke detector alarm still goes off even if the system is not armed?

Thanks!
 
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Old 06-22-10, 03:03 PM
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you could change it yourself- you need to know if its a 2 or 4 wire smoke.

these are not something you can buy at a homedepot or lowes


they are also not cheap like the ones you find in the stores. expect to pay $35 +



try a can of air for cleaning electronic stuff- spray the vented area's with it- it may bring it back to life. and allow it to re-set.


smoke detectors are life saving devices, and work regardless what state the system is in. armed or dis-armed.


if you get it off the ceiling, and disconnect the red wire it should go into trouble. you can silence that - but the detector wont work.


try a can of air for cleaning electronic stuff- spray the vented area's with it- it may bring it back to life. and allow it to re-set.
 
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Old 06-22-10, 04:02 PM
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Whoops, I goofed here. I'll have to re-post in a few minutes.

But in the meantime, Nancy, could you look on your control box (the steel cabinet, not the keypad) door and tell us if that's a PC5010? DSC 832 is a series, not a model number. We need a number beginning with "PC".
 
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Old 06-22-10, 05:28 PM
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Yes, its a PC5010.

I think i have an extra one or two of the smoke detectors that I bought from Ademco when I was purchasing supplies for my work alarm.

I will try the canned air first.

Thanks!
 
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Old 06-22-10, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by NancyHawaii View Post
I will try the canned air first.

Thanks!
Good idea. It may calm it down for awhile; but as old as your smokes are, don't count on it staying dormant for too long. When you get the time, I recommend swapping it out.

Post back if we can help.
 
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Old 06-22-10, 09:08 PM
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I looked and looked but can't find the other smoke detector I got.

If i'm going to buy a new one, do you recommend me purchasing the same brand?

Since the alarm will also go off when the system is not armed, is there anyway for me to shut down the smoke detector so I can arm the system?

I did a reset on the smoke detectors, able to arm the system, but then the smoke alarm goes off.

Thanks!
 
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Old 06-22-10, 10:34 PM
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Nancy, I don't know how to advise you until I know what you have. There are different ways the smoke(s) can be hooked up, depending on whether it's 2-wire or 4-wire. Unless there is a cable in the control panel labeled "To Smoke Detectors" (said labels being rare as hen's teeth), I don't know where you'll find the wires & terminals you need to work with to shunt the smoke sensor(s).

Is there a zone number associated with the fire alarms you've been having? Does your keypad show numbers, or numbered LEDs or just words? What do you see on the keypad display when the smoke trips? Everything you see.

If the smokes are on a zone number between 1 and 8, I can tell you how to shunt it, but I need the number to start with.

You can take LOCKtec's suggestion and take the red wire off the smoke detector itself, and then silence the trouble, but I don't think it stays silenced permanently. I think you'll need to keep silencing it periodically.

Unfortunately, not knowing what model smoke sensor you have, I can't tell you how to open it. Hopefully you'll figure it out. Most of 'em aren't that hard.

It's past midnight here on the east coast of the continent. I may not be here when you post back. Anyone familiar with DSC can feel free to jump in here. DSC's are not my strong suit.

Nancy, to answer your question, it isn't important to purchase the same brand but you'll need to know it it's a 2-wire or 4-wire. You'll need to look at the smoke sensor itself to see that.
 
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Old 06-26-10, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ChosunOne View Post
Nancy, I don't know how to advise you until I know what you have. There are different ways the smoke(s) can be hooked up, depending on whether it's 2-wire or 4-wire. Unless there is a cable in the control panel labeled "To Smoke Detectors" (said labels being rare as hen's teeth), I don't know where you'll find the wires & terminals you need to work with to shunt the smoke sensor(s).

Is there a zone number associated with the fire alarms you've been having? Does your keypad show numbers, or numbered LEDs or just words? What do you see on the keypad display when the smoke trips? Everything you see.

If the smokes are on a zone number between 1 and 8, I can tell you how to shunt it, but I need the number to start with.

You can take LOCKtec's suggestion and take the red wire off the smoke detector itself, and then silence the trouble, but I don't think it stays silenced permanently. I think you'll need to keep silencing it periodically.

Unfortunately, not knowing what model smoke sensor you have, I can't tell you how to open it. Hopefully you'll figure it out. Most of 'em aren't that hard.

It's past midnight here on the east coast of the continent. I may not be here when you post back. Anyone familiar with DSC can feel free to jump in here. DSC's are not my strong suit.

Nancy, to answer your question, it isn't important to purchase the same brand but you'll need to know it it's a 2-wire or 4-wire. You'll need to look at the smoke sensor itself to see that.

I tried the spray but that didn't work. The smoke detector went off again this morning.

This is what it says on the keypad:

Alarm Memory
(*3) to view

Alarm Memory
Fire ZSone

System Open:
Smoke Detector

No zone number appeared. The red light on the smoke detector is on again.

Will the alarm go off if I remove the smoke detector? I just hate to take it off and the system keeps going off every so often.

My smoke detector looks like Ademco 5192SD.
 
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Old 06-26-10, 05:21 PM
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If I had to guess, it sounds like you have a 2-wire smoke connected to the PGM input. The temporary fix would be to take the wire off of PGM2, and put a 2.2 k resistor (Red Red Red, for the first 3 color stripes) From PGM2 to Aux +. That will let you clear the fire alarm long enough to get a replacement for the contaminated smoke.
 
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Old 06-26-10, 07:35 PM
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The alarm will NOT go off if you take down the smoke detector. In fact it will stop the panel from alarming on you without having to bypass it at the panel terminals. It will set a trouble and the yellow trouble light will turn on.
 
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Old 06-26-10, 08:07 PM
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Thank you everyone!

I guess I'll go down to Ademco on Monday to see if they will sell me a smoke detector (since I can't find the one I have).

So replacing is as easy as take off the old one (with 2 or 4 wires)... hook up the new one with the wires?

Do I need to reset anything after the installation?

Thanks Nancy
 
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Old 06-26-10, 08:50 PM
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Yes, wire for wire. If it's a 2 wire, it's easy, just hook the 2 wires to the input (red to + black to -), and attach the 2.2k resistor to the output. If it's 4 wire, you will have 4 wires plus an "End of Line" relay in that box. The wires should be red (+), black (-) and two other colors (usually brown and blue) which go to the NO terminals input. The EOL relay will attach to the output terminals the same way, but there will be a 5.6k resistor INLINE with ONE of the NO terminal wires. (The resistor MUST NOT connect to both NO terminals!)

After you replace the detector, you just have to hold the RESET button on the keypad for 2 seconds (or[*][7][2] if the RESET button is not active or assigned to something else) to reset the detector loop, then run a system test ([*][6] (Master Code) > System Test[*]) to clear the Trouble light.
 
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Old 06-27-10, 01:45 AM
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That sounds pretty easy. Thanks!

I know our local Ademco store will also sell to people in the alarm industry... any other suggestions if they won't sell to me?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by JerseyMatt View Post
Yes, wire for wire. If it's a 2 wire, it's easy, just hook the 2 wires to the input (red to + black to -), and attach the 2.2k resistor to the output. If it's 4 wire, you will have 4 wires plus an "End of Line" relay in that box. The wires should be red (+), black (-) and two other colors (usually brown and blue) which go to the NO terminals input. The EOL relay will attach to the output terminals the same way, but there will be a 5.6k resistor INLINE with ONE of the NO terminal wires. (The resistor MUST NOT connect to both NO terminals!)

After you replace the detector, you just have to hold the RESET button on the keypad for 2 seconds (or[*][7][2] if the RESET button is not active or assigned to something else) to reset the detector loop, then run a system test ([*][6] (Master Code) > System Test[*]) to clear the Trouble light.
 
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Old 06-27-10, 02:18 AM
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Sorry so much questions....

If I bypass the smoke detector zone... and arm the system... will the faulty detector still trip the system?

Is there anyway I can 'turn off' the smoke detector temporary until I get a replacement?

Oh another problem i'm having... one of my doors contact is acting up. When the door is opened, sometimes it will be a delay at the keypad showing the door is open.. so when the door is opened, the keypad still shows ready. Sometimes couple of minutes later, then the keypad beeps to not ready. The door's got the recessed contacts.

Forgot to ask about this problem... I can get the parts together on Monday.

Thanks!
 
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Old 06-27-10, 09:53 AM
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You can't bypass a fire zone with[*][1] like you can with other zone types because fire zones are always armed. Like I said, just physically remove the detector, silence the Trouble, and you'll be fine.

Fire zones use normally open devices, and have three modes of operation (normal/alarm/trouble) rather than the two on regular door contacts (secure/alarm). In normal mode, the loop is complete, and the panel 'sees' the End Of Line resistor (just like a secure door zone). When a detector goes into alarm, it shorts out the loop before the EOL, so the panel sees zero resistance and goes into alarm mode. If the wiring is broken somewhere along the loop (which happens when you remove a detector), the panel no longer sees the EOL, and goes into Trouble mode. This setup is to make sure any wiring fault (including a missing detector) alerts you at the keypad. It also ensures that you can remove and replace a detector without triggering the alarm.

Does that help?

As for your door contact, it will just have to be replaced. That's a very common problem in magnetic switches as they age. The switch itself takes on magnetism, so even when you move the magnet away, it takes a while for the magnetism to fade and release the contact. Eventually it won't release at all. Assuming the system was installed all at once, all the contacts are the same age. I would go through every door and window and test them to make sure they release (especially ones that aren't opened often). Replace all sticky ones now, and buy a few spares to have on hand in case a new sticker pops up.

If the local store won't sell to you, there are a ton of online suppliers that sell to the general public. Just google 'alarm parts' and take your pick..
 
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Old 06-28-10, 05:25 AM
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Thank you soooo much! Great information!

Is there a model number somewhere on the smoke detector? I want to stick with the same one, i guess just to make it easy since I've never replace one of these before.

I remember the OLD systems where magnetic strips were used. I used to replaced a lot of those

I tried to remove the detector by turning it but it did not budge. Is there a safety latch somewhere?

Thanks again!
Nancy
 
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Old 06-28-10, 06:47 AM
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Yes there will be a brand/model on the back label where the wire terminals are. Unfortunately without knowing which one it is, I can't tell you exactly how to go about removing it (gotta love the Catch-22! ). I can tell you that most of them DONT twist off like your AC ones.. They are screwed directly to the electrical box, and there is usually a trick to opening them up to get at the screws.. There will usually be a thin slot somewhere around the outside perimeter (if you can see a hinge, it will be opposite that) where you stick a small screwdriver in and push to release the latch. Can you post a picture of it? Maybe I can recognize it and help you out if you can't figure out how to open it.
 
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Old 06-28-10, 04:51 PM
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I saw the latch and was able to turn the smoke detector.

It's a System Sensor 2112/24TB (4 wire).
 
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Old 06-28-10, 05:43 PM
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Ah, that's easier. The direct replacement is the System Sensor 4WT-B.

The new models are much easier to wire. You just wire the base, then the detector head snaps right into it.
 
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Old 06-28-10, 07:13 PM
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Here's a photo of the wiring. There's more than 4 wires connected to it. Will the replacement model is easy like this to wire?

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3286/imag0408.jpg

Thanks so much for everyone's help!
 
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Old 06-28-10, 08:47 PM
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Eww.. Looks like you had a leak. That could have contributed to that one failing. Make sure you cut the ends off the wire and strip fresh copper. Pull back that white clip and the black terminal block will come out revealing the terminal screws.

The extra wires go to the End of Line relay. That's what trips the Trouble at the panel if the detector circuit loses power. The piece of blue wire that's all wrapped up in tape is the End of Line resistor. You can't strip that, just make sure the thin silver wire is clean of corrosion before you hook it to the new detector.

The new detector will have the same terminals as the old one. The black wires go to -, the red wires to +, and the blue/brown wires go to NO and C. Do NOT twist the wires together. One wire per terminal. They are connected together inside the detector, so that removing the detector breaks the loop and sets a Trouble. abd C
 
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Old 06-29-10, 03:43 PM
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Thanks for all the help with the smoke detectors.

Now I need help with the recessed door contacts

I measured the diameter. It's 3/8" but how do I remove it to see the length? Do I just pry it off?

Thanks again!
 
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Old 06-29-10, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NancyHawaii View Post
Thanks for all the help with the smoke detectors.

Now I need help with the recessed door contacts

I measured the diameter. It's 3/8" but how do I remove it to see the length? Do I just pry it off?

Thanks again!
If the installer did it right and didn't glue it in, yes. Use a sharp knife or jeweler's screwdriver to pry around the edge and you'll gradually work it free. You may not have a lot of play with the wires though. The depth doesn't really matter in most cases, unless it is a very shallow mount. You just need the same diameter.
 
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Old 07-08-10, 12:44 AM
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The local ADI would not sell me the smoke detector and I finally found an online shop that wouldn't charge an arm and a leg to ship to Hawaii. Waiting for the detector to arrive... its almost over
 
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Old 07-15-10, 08:07 PM
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I just received my new smoke detector.

My existing one has +, +, -, -, NO, C but the new one only has +, +, -, NO, C.

Where do i connect the extra '-' to?

Thanks!
 
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Old 07-15-10, 08:21 PM
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Wait for the experts but I'm pretty sure the second set of + and - connections on the old unit were just parallel with the first set. If this is true then you would just double up under the - terminal.
 
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Old 07-15-10, 08:53 PM
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yep- put it with the other one.... they saved a few cents doing it this way.
 
 

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