Replaced my Vista 10SE with a Vista 20P

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  #1  
Old 09-19-10, 04:27 PM
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Replaced my Vista 10SE with a Vista 20P

Was very simple because the panels are very similar. I just have a couple questions I hope someone could help me with:

Previously, on the 10SE I had zones 1&2 connected to the 8-9-10 terminals, zones 3&4 connected to the 11-12-13 terminals, and zones 5&6 to the 14-15-16 terminals.

On the new 20P, I kept the zones exactly as they were, and put zones 1&2 on the 12-13-14 terminals, 3&4 on the 15-16-17 terminals, and 5&6 on the 18-19-20 terminals.

Does this sound correct so far?

This leaves terminals 8-9 which the manual says is for 2-wire smoke detectors (which I am planning to add, any suggestions for which detectors to get?)

And that leaves terminals 10-11. If these go unused, would I just add a resistor to these terminals? How would I do this? Is it one resistor and put one end on 10 and the other end on 11?

Also, I notice the plug gets hot. Is this normal or could I have an electrical problem?

Thanks for any help and advice anyone could offer!
 
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Old 09-19-10, 05:22 PM
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The transformer will always get warm. Not sure what you call hot. It will get warmer, right up to "hot" if it's doing more work, charging up a new battery for instance.

The way you describe the zone placement is valid enough, however your nomenclature is now off, which can get confusing. And we don't need confusing if we're giving advice where we can't see what we're working with like you can.

"Zone n", where is n=zone number, is defined by which terminals on the control you connect them to.

So if your old V-10SE panel had your (for example) Entry/Exit door(s) on zone one, that means you connected the E/E loop wires to terminals 8&9 of the V-10. Being connected to 8&9 of the V-10 is what makes the E/E loop zone 1--not the labeling on your zone list.

As soon as you took those loop wires (for the E/E door(s) in my example) and put them on terminals 12&13 of the V-20, the loop (whatever it is) became zone 3.

So you can keep the zones as they are, but not the zone numbers.

So what you have now, as you described it, is zones 3&4 on terminals 12-13-14; zones 5&6 on terminals 15-16-17, and zones 7&8 on terminals 18-19-20. The zones are named right there on the diagram on the inside of the V-20 cabinet door.

Get used to the new zone numbers or it will get very confusing. And if you haven't already done so, swap out the V-10 cabinet door with the V-20 cabinet door. It could save you a lot of confusion up the road when the differences aren't so clear in your memory any more.

Also, you didn't mention anything about the EOL resistors. The V-10 used 1K resistors. The V-20 needs 2K resistors on each zone. If your old EOL resistors are on sensors at the End-of-Line, they will need to be replaced with 2K resistors.

In the unlikely (but not unheard of) event that you can't find them, report back and we'll help.

In the panel, unused zones will need to be strapped with EOLR's (End of Line Resistors) across the zone terminals, just as you surmised. A 2K resistor across 8&9 for zone 1 until you add the smokes, and a 2K across 10&11 for zone 2.

One final thing that has confounded some DIYers: The Vista-20P comes with two sets of resistors. One pack has a mix of 3K and 6.2K resistors, 8 each. Do NOT get those mixed with the 2K resistors (red-black-red-gold) that you need to use.

The locations for alarm panels are often in dim lighting where red, brown and orange look an awful lot alike (making 2K, 1K and 3K's look awfully similar), so my advice is: Remove all resistors not to be used to a safe storage jar in another room, inside a box, nailed shut, wrapped in a moisture-proof tarp and buried in the next county. Bulldoze a large rock over the grave to be safe.

You get the picture. Do not for a moment imagine you can't pick up the wrong resistor by mistake if you leave it lying around in the work space. (Experience speaking here)
 
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Old 09-19-10, 07:10 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply! Thanks for setting me straight with the zones. I need to start thinking in terms of my new zones, especially when I get around to programming.

Also, I didn't realize I needed to switch out the EOL resistors. Looking at the panel, it looks like I have 6 EOL resistors (1 for each zone) so I can just switch them out with the 2k resistors, correct? -- I already put the 3k and 6.2k out of reach

I don't need to change any of the magnetic contacts at my windows and doors, do I? Also, what if I wanted to add vibration contacts at my windows, how would it effect my setup?

Thanks for the great advice!
 
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Old 09-19-10, 10:01 PM
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Ah, so your EOLR's (End Of Line Resistors) were applied as ITBR's (In The Box Resistors).

Nothing wrong with that in home installation burglar zones. But when you install your smoke sensors, don't even _think_ of putting the resistor in the control box. It goes on the last device (smoke or heat sensor) at the end of the fire zone.

No need to change door/window contacts as long as they're working.

I personally discourage vibration contacts for windows--I've had too much falsing trouble with them. Also because new installers want to use the existing contact wires and put them on the same zones as the window contacts---NOT a good idea.

Motion and glassbreak sensors of any kind should always have their own zone. Always. They are not in the same category as door/window contacts.

When you install a door/window contact, you can see what troubles you might have and adjust for them. If you can't get the alignment just _exactly_ right, you can use a bigger magnet. Or double up on the magnets. Or maybe drill and reset the contact or magnet. Or use long-reach contacts. The point is, if you understand how it works, you can see if it's right and you can test if it's right. You can pull, push, tug, shake, rattle, roll, and kick at the openings to see if they're secure enough not to trip the contacts.

You can't do that with motions and glassbreaks. They respond to transitory stimuli (I love that term) that can come and go in a flash. What trips them is not permanent and testable like doors and windows. I'm not even going to attempt to detail all the things that can combine to trip your glassbreak sensors of any kind because they're too many. The fact that acoustic glassbreaks do usually work with relatively few problems is a testament to the tremendous advances in acoustic signal processing over the last few decades. Which is why I use acoustic glassbreaks instead of vibes.

The point is, though, that without being able to see what might have caused a false glassbreak alarm, you need to know which device tripped, so you can take a microscope to the environment it monitors---as opposed to a microscopic examination of the entire house.

I used to do troubleshooting before systems had enough zones to divide into managable portions, and I'd rather put every door and window on a single zone than have two glassbreak sensors share a zone. That goes triple for having vibration sensors on every window, tied into the same zone as the window.

Other techs can weigh in on this, but that's my $.02.
 
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Old 09-20-10, 06:11 PM
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In general, where glassbreaks are concerned, for most purposes, the acoustic glass breaks are a much better choice. Look at your windows with a critical eye. If you have a lot of sliding glass doors and largish windows that are low enough to get through easily if the glass is broken out, then some type of glass break is a good idea.

Shock sensors have their place, but for a residence, the acoustics are the better choice. One device covers a whole wall or even a whole room.
 
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Old 09-22-10, 09:54 PM
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Got everything programmed and working perfectly with the advice I got here. Thanks. Now I'm just waiting for a broadband alarm transmitter to show up at my door. Hopefully everything is smooth sailing the rest of the way.
 
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Old 09-24-10, 12:53 PM
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Does anyone have experience with the VM101? It looks like I need to get some 4 conductor 22 guage wire to connect it to my alarm panel. It says to connect to the same terminals that my keypad is connected to. Do I just double-up the wires on those 4 terminals?
 
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Old 09-24-10, 03:57 PM
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Yes, if it's a keypad bus connection, it connects to the same terminals that the keypad connects to.

Never used this device. If it's the one that comes from a company called MyVirtualMonitoring, I'm not impressed with the fact that I have yet to get their website to open...
 
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Old 09-26-10, 06:29 PM
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It looks like they are just a reseller for ipdatatel because that is what it says on the VM101. Anyway, everything seems to be working fine. I can arm/disarm from the website and my blackberry, I can view the event log and set up notifications (text, email, phone) for every event. Thanks for everyone's help!!
 
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