How to wire Simon XT to relay to drive external sirens

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Old 05-01-11, 05:34 PM
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How to wire Simon XT to relay to drive external sirens

Hi,
Looking for help on how to wire a Simon XT to an external siren using a relay. Basically I just want one or two loud sirens, and need to use an external DC supply to power the sirens (the HW1 output from the XT not enough power/current). I purchased an ELK-960, and have two external sirens, an ELK-SS15 and GE 13-950. Thing is, I cannot figure the correct way to wire the XT to the relay. Seem like there may be a grounding problem, reading the ELK-960 diagram, which wants the external supply and the trigger (which comes from the XT) to have the same ground. I tried tying the ground of the DC supply to the HW1 connector on the XT. This seems to work OK using the 13-950 siren. But when I tried to add the ELK-SS15 siren (for extra volume), things got flakey. It appear that I could not reliably cancel a false award - the XT did not recognize the disarm command.

Bottom line - looking for the right way to wire the XT to a relay to drive one or more external sirens. Surely someone has a configuration that works. I have made my best guess but it just does not seem to be right.

Thanks!!!
 
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Old 08-19-11, 08:51 AM
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Update??

I have a 4000+sqft home and the Simon XT Piezo Panel Siren is way too weak.Also there is NO outside siren. Have you managed to make this work in the Simon XT? I am in process of trying to do the same thing; wire in "external" loud sirens (1 inside(existing ADT siren) ; 1 outside SD30W - DSC 30W Siren). I want to wire in 12V Pwr with 12V battery backup & trickle charge to utilize my old ADT/Brinks sirens.

Like you stated, "Surely someone has a configuration that works"

Thanks
 
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Old 08-19-11, 10:00 AM
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If you have a XT v1.4 and higher, program HW1 for Option 6 (external siren). If not, HW1 is already set up for internal siren. From the manual. "the HW1&2 DC out (terminal 2) provides the positive voltage."
 
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Old 09-02-11, 10:47 PM
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Understand that all Simon panels put out a voltage lower than 12. Seriously, use a multimeter across the output when the AC is off and the unit is running on the puny 6V backup battery. Real soon you can get down to 4.5 volts or so.

The only practical way to get the big sirens to work under all conditions, even when the AC has failed is to use the Altronix RBSNTTL relay. That device has a special low voltage trigger that will work from 3 to 24V. Remember, the Simon may be closer to 3 or 4v on battery backup (why nobody tests this is a mystery!). Have the Simon trigger the RBSNTTL and wire the contacts to a separate power supply. Altronix has those too and some of them are supervised.
 
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Old 06-16-12, 05:57 PM
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I am considering buying a Simon XT and basically want to do the same thing (connect at least one maybe 2 external sirens (as a matter of fact I will want to turn of the panel siren and hope that's possible btw.) Did this question ever get answered???
 
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Old 07-06-12, 07:40 AM
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Cool How to wire an external siren w/ an Altronix RBSNTTL relay.

I found a lot of misleading information on the web while I was trying to hook up my external siren to my Simon XT ver 1.4. Although I finally figured it out, I hope this helps save someone else hours of aggravation. First off you need to go into "dealer" mode to set up H0/1(which is going to be your negative trigger terminal) to setting #6 to change from internal to external alarm. TRIGGER- Wire the other trigger wire to the DC out (+) terminal right next to it. Place that (+)DC out(which is the positive trigger) to the (+)trigger on the relay and the H0/1(-) to the (-)trigger terminal on the relay. TRANSFORMER- Place the (+) from your 12v tranformer to the (+)in terminal on the relay and the (-) transformer wire on to (-) on the (-)in on the relay. Put a jumper wire from the (+)in(your 12 v tranformer) terminal on the relay to the (C) terminal on the relay. Now for your SIREN- put the (+) of the siren to the NO of the relay, then the (-) of the siren with the (-) from the transformer and BAM your done. You can also put the supplied resistor in across siren wires and enable "supervised" on the control panel if you want that option. I hope this helps somebody .
 
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Old 09-07-13, 03:15 PM
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external siren for Simon XT

In response to the last post, it doesn't state anything about a power supply. I was wondering if I need a power supply in addition to the relay, or can one just hook up to the transformer to power the siren along with the relay? I realize that there would be no battery back-up. Is that all the power supply is for, or do you need the power supply to actually run the siren? If the power supply is needed along with the relay, can you state or show how the wiring is done? Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 09-07-13, 07:02 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

Just using the transformer isn't enough. The transformer that runs the alarm is AC and most of the external sirens need at least 12VDC. That alarm runs on 6vdc and uses a 1.2ah 6v battery. I wouldn't recommending using any of the panel power parts to power an external siren.

The transformer mentioned above in post #6 is probably a 12vdc 1amp plug in wall wart. It needs to have enough output to run whatever siren you choose. The relay in the diagram is a 6/12vdc relay.

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Last edited by PJmax; 09-07-13 at 07:53 PM. Reason: Diagram added
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Old 09-08-13, 01:49 AM
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external siren for simon xt

That makes perfect sense, I forgot you are converting AC to DC, hence the need for the power supply. I have two sirens still in place but not in use from my old Ademco Vantage alarm that I would like to put in use again, as I don't like the control panel piezo alarm only. I kept the instruction manual from that old system that states the siren output is 2 amps, so I'm looking at getting the Altronix SMP3 2.5 amp power supply in conjunction with the Altronix RBSNTTL relay and then wiring them up according to the great diagram you provided. Unfortunately, I had this alarm installed by a dealer, so I can't change the HW1 output to option 6 on my own. They'll have to send a tech out I guess, unless it can be done remotely. Anyway, thank you, appreciate the help!
 
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Old 09-11-13, 03:27 PM
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Simon XT External Siren

Hello- Got my parts today to hook up external siren, and had a question about the RBSNTTL relay- since there are two sets of NO/NC/C contacts, does it matter which contacts- the ones on the pos(+) side or neg(-) side, I hook up the siren and power supply to? I'm following the diagram that PJmax supplied in this post. Thank you.
 
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Old 09-11-13, 03:36 PM
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The relay is probably a double pole relay...... two sets of N, NC and NO terminals. You can use either set.

There is usually only one + and - input terminal.
 
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Old 09-11-13, 03:55 PM
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Yes, that's correct, according to the diagram those pos(+)/(-) inputs are unused, right? I just hook up the wires from the XT to the trigger +/- on the relay.
 
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Old 09-11-13, 04:14 PM
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I didn't realize what relay you had received. That's an expensive high sensitivity relay. A bit of an overkill for your application.

Yes.....you need to supply 12v power to the plus and minus terminals.
The trigger wires will still go to the alarm system.

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Old 09-11-13, 04:20 PM
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OK, so then I really don't follow the diagram as shown. Can you show me the correct hook up if I'm using the Altronix RSBNTTL and 2 amp power supply to install the siren? Thank you.
 
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Old 09-11-13, 04:23 PM
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I added an updated pic to my previous post.
 
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Old 09-11-13, 04:33 PM
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Yes, that's definitely different! Thank you so much for your help, PJmax!
 
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Old 01-18-14, 08:24 AM
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Great Thread, Confirming Equipment

This thread has been very helpful. Can someone confirm that the equipment I am going to order is correct?

Simon XT
Siren is a Universal SS30- 30W

-Transformer/battery- ELK-P112K
-Trigger- trying to decide between the ELK-924 and the ELK-912B. Was thinking the 924 because of the low trigger voltage, but then was worried that maybe that would cause more false alarms??

I think that's all I need??

Thank you!
 
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Old 01-18-14, 09:17 AM
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That kit is a 1 amp power supply kit. The SS-30 outdoor 30 watt siren requires 1.1 amps.
It's a little close to the power supply's limit but it should be ok.

The Elk 912B is a 12/24 vdc relay which won't work as the Simon has a 6 vdc output.

The Elk 924 triggers with 4-24 vdc so that would work ok.
The relay won't cause intermittent alarms.
 
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Old 02-08-14, 06:04 PM
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Just wanted to thank you PJMax for the diagrams and explanation. I've been reading for a bit but decided to join and post after using the info on here. I followed them and was able to set up my elk external siren, relay, ps, and transformer without much difficulty. Big ups to the people here
 
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Old 02-21-14, 08:20 PM
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PJMax thanks for the diagram. I got the Simon XT few weeks ago to replace my ADT alarm and have been reading a lot about Simon XT on this great forum!

I do have one question regarding the diagram. How would I connect a 12V. battery to the relay? I've the same Altronix relay. I'll be using the existing ADT transformer and siren.

Thanks in advance
 
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Old 02-21-14, 09:02 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

I need a little more detail. Are you just going to use a 12v battery with no charger ?

In my diagram..... it says "aux power" which is your 12v power source. It can be any 12vdc power source big enough to run your siren unit. A battery needs to be charged so just connecting a battery only in that circuit is not a long term solution.
 
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Old 02-21-14, 09:29 PM
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Thanks for quick reply. I will be using the original ADT power adapter and would like to use the battery as backup, is that possible?
 
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Old 02-21-14, 09:37 PM
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No... the original ADT supply is 16.5VAC and you need 12VDC. The old ADT panel had a battery charging circuit built into it. You can buy a small Altronix charging board that will regulate the charge for you.
 
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Old 02-21-14, 09:41 PM
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Thank you! I'll look into that.
 
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Old 02-21-14, 09:53 PM
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I should have lift you a little more info. It's called the AL624 supply/charger board. Very inexpensive and available many places.

AL624 Linear Power Supply / Charger
 
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Old 02-22-14, 02:39 PM
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That really help! Thanks. I'm going to get that. When you get the chance, could you possibily show how I would connect the power supply charger with the relay & Simon XT.

Greatly appreciate for all your help!
 
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Old 02-22-14, 02:43 PM
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Also, what Amp should I get for the 12V DC adapter?
 
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Old 03-16-14, 12:37 PM
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need help with exterior siren

Hi, this thread has been very interesting but I'm still a little confused.

I'm installing a 30 watt exterior siren Moose AS-395 with a Simon XT (v 1.45). The siren manual says current can be supplied by the optional battery. I installed a 1270 type battery (12v, 7Ah), no relay, no transformer and it does not work. Is it normal, do I really need the trans and the relay?

Assuming I have to have the relay, what relay would you recommend?

For the transformer, do I need a separate one for the siren or do I use the same for both the siren and Simon XT? What trans would you recommend? The trans that came with the Simon is a 9 vdc 25va, obviously that is not enough for the siren.

The siren operating current is 1.9 Amp, standby current is 10 mA, voltage requirement 10-14.5 VDC.

Finally Simon XT says a 45 kohm resistor can be used, I'm confused with the purpose of this, and if it is necessary or can be skipped. If I should install it, how would that wiring look like?

thank you
 
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Old 03-16-14, 01:04 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

Post 13 should address all your questions. You have a 6 volt alarm system so it's pretty clear that you can't connect a 12volt audible device to it.

You need a 12volt battery with its own 12 volt charger. You need a 12volt relay.
The ELK 924 relay would be a good choice unless you shop around for another relay that uses a 6vdc coil.
 
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Old 03-16-14, 06:17 PM
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Thank you for the fast response -

ELK makes two trans, a 16 v (http://************/lofuqeq) and a 24 v.
Will the 16 do or is that going to fry the siren and battery with the extra 4 volts?

How about the resistor? Is that necessary?
 
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Old 03-17-14, 08:46 AM
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I think Iíve found answer to my own question, I did not realize that these transformers are AC current and the siren uses DC.

It seems all alarm power supplies are 6VDC, 16.5VDC or 24VDC, thus the need for a linear power supply in-between the transformer and the siren.

Where Iím still confused is how the linear power supply should be wired. Is it right after the transformer like so

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or, between the relay and the siren like so?

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Thanks again.
 
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Old 03-17-14, 09:44 AM
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The resistor sounds like an EOL resistor and is only needed if the alarm circuit is programmed with supervision. I left you a new diagram below. The charger (LPS) has the six terminals on it for connection.

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Old 03-17-14, 10:15 AM
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I see, thank you.However with my siren the battery is in the siren enclosure and direcly connected to the circuit board so I suppose the only difference with your diagram is that the battery is not connected to the LPS and the siren circuit should be designed to charge the battery directly?
 
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Old 03-17-14, 10:51 AM
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If all you want to do is charge your battery..... pickup a small float charger or maintenance charger.
Automatic Battery Charger - 12V
 
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Old 03-17-14, 12:01 PM
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I have one of these already but I need to power up the siren, it did not work when I hooked it up directly to the Simon panel when I triggered the alarm. The siren wiring diagram includes a relay, here's how it looks. The problem with this diagram is that it's assuming a 12v alarm output and the Simon is 6v so I probably need to follow your diagram. I also see that they connect the relay to NC and Com while yours has N/O and Com. Finally, do you understand what they mean by removed before sounding in the notes warning?

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Last edited by dougui; 03-17-14 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 03-17-14, 09:42 PM
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I'm not quite sure what you have there and the pic is hard to see.

They are setting their siren up supervised. That means that you need to create a short at the panel at all times and then that short opens to activate the siren. This is done to protect the wiring from cutting.

Is there a link to that info you posted or a model number.
 
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Old 03-18-14, 05:36 AM
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Yes, the way I understand, the circuit must be closed at all times and when it opens, the siren sounds as somewhere in the manual it says the siren will be silenced either when current comes back or after the programmed time out period expires.

This also makes me wonder what happens if the electricity is turned off as it would act as if the cable is cut and the siren will sound, powered by the internal battery. Maybe I do need to hook up a secondary battery to the LPS battery connections for that purpose after all so that it keeps the relay closed, what do you think?

Here's the link to the full user manual (which is very short) http://www.interlogix.com/_/assets/l...AS395_SPEC.pdf

Thank you
 
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Old 03-18-14, 06:07 AM
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I think you are trying to power/trigger a 12v device with a 6 volt system. That's why all the extra relays and power supplies are in the diagrams previously posted in this thread.
 
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Old 03-18-14, 09:29 AM
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That's correct. Trying to figure out how to wire it correctly though as it seems this siren needs a closed circuit in non-alarm state as opposed to open as shown on the wiring diagram below. Also I'm not sure if the relay needs to have a backup battery to keep the loop closed in case power goes out or if the internal battery will power the siren circuit but stay in non-alarm mode.
 
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Old 03-18-14, 10:31 AM
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You would be supplying it with a constant 12VDC through a normally closed contact on a relay that will open on alarm. Since the XT is a 6 volt system, the form-C relay needs to have a 6VDC activation coil.
 
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