Brinks - CP Trouble - BUT Different


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Old 06-23-11, 08:19 PM
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Brinks - CP Trouble - BUT Different

Have read old threads & FAQ sticky but have not seen answer yet
Brinks BHS-3000 system - installed for 4.5 yrs no problems
CP Trouble Msg appeared last week
Called C/S (now ADT - that was a surprise) - they said contact ATT
ATT comes out & verifies dial tone & their line OK.
ADT says it will cost $$$$ unless I sign up for service contract first.......guess my monthly fee since install is not enough
ATT - when I told installer there are NO Landline Phones in the house he disconnected the Yellow & Black wires from the ugly bundles of old house lines (prior owner left over) - outside the ATT terminal box - then connected the Red & Green Alarm wires to the Red & Green ATT terminals respectively

The Elk RJ31x block is in the Alarm box about 15' from ATT terminal box
I've actually been able to eliminate the CP msg twice - tightened all the connections, etc, etc + powered down the system - hit test & although it went through it took a long time......but another test today failed & the CP msg returned.

Soooooo my questions are
1) Black & Yellow wires disconnected - is that OK? since there are no Home phones...also no DSL, cable or anything else new in telco line
2) Can I wire Telco line directly to Alarm system eliminating the RJ31x block?
3) Was ATT right matching Red & Green wires?
4) What else can I try to get this thing working without a service call?

Thanks in advance
 
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Old 06-24-11, 09:32 AM
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J

It is possible that the Rj-31x jack or it's connector cord have gone bad. If the alarm is the only thing using the phone line, then simply connecting the Red/Green terminals will do the trick.

The jack isn't an absolute necessity, but it's a very good idea. In the FAQ sticky, follow the link on how to wire a rj31x jack. My gut instinct, given how erratic you are describing this glitch to be is, is that you need a new jack, connector cord or both.

It's possible that you have bad wiring in between the alarm and the demarc. Hot and damp weather can often make marginal phone wire fail.
 
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Old 06-24-11, 02:01 PM
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Thanks - Will Try

MrRonFL
Thanks so much for the response
Sure, it's possible the RJ31X or the Alarm connector have gone bad. They are both
inside the Alarm box which is inside a den closet, both look fine yet I know that means little with electronics.
But note = Alarm connector to RJ31x jack appears to be hardwired to the Alarm circuit board.
So a new RJ31x and a new wire (Brinks installed originally) from Telco demarc box are certainly doable - and I can follow the jack wiring info
My only remaining question about the wiring = the Yellow & Black that are normally connected to other house phone lines (that I do not have) = it's OK to leave "dangling" & not connected to anything.....???
 
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Old 06-24-11, 08:17 PM
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The Plot Thickens

So I go chase down some new wire & RJ31X
Install new wire(only red & green at telco demarc) & connect to old jack = to see if it was just the old wire.
This is where it gets strange.
In order to clear the CP trouble alarm, I power down System = disconnect battery & power cord.
Then power it back up but low battery msg appears = I connected battery after
power cord. But disappears shortly after........so I thought.
So I decide to run the "Test" function to see if I'm connecting with ADT.
The Test runs the longest time ever - will not stop no matter what I hit on key pad
so I'm thinking the new wiring did not make a difference. So I power back down
and prepare to swap out the Jack.
My cell phone rings & it's ADT telling me they got an alert that I have a Low Battery. I said thank you & got off the phone because I did not want to go into
what else I was doing.
I had opened up the new RJ31x (marked on package & inside cover) and instantly realized it is different = 8 posts than the Jack being used by Alarm co = only 4 posts. Not sure why it did not register earlier. The Alarm co jack had no markings to indicate type - it has a wide connector vs std phone connector.

BTW - when I powered back up the 2nd time after ADT called (I was preparing to swap out jack) I connected Battery first - then main power - no low battery msg appears - and system is showing no Trouble msgs at all..........I'm "afraid" to try another Test

New Status
1) Alarm Co received Low Battery msg - so the CP Trouble is intermittent.
2) Alarm Co jack is not a RJ31x

Could the Battery (will be 5 yrs old 10/2011 - at least) be causing any of the CP Trouble alerts?
 

Last edited by JustNoise; 06-24-11 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 06-25-11, 07:33 AM
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The jack you originally had was one that many of the mass installers use. It only had terminals for the incoming phone line and the return to feed the house lines. The standard RJ-31x has extra connections that can be used for things like creating a tamper circuit that triggers if the phone plug is unplugged. You are still only working with the 4 terminals (Red/Green & Brown/Grey).

Your battery is old enough that you probably should consider replacing it (5-7 years is typical), but the reason you generated the battery trouble was because you connected the battery after connecting AC power, so the system saw the missing battery and there was a lag before it ran the battery test again.

Honestly, it's hard to tell _exactly_ what's happening here. Remember, when you have the telco check the line, they are only verifying dialtone to the demarc. The real diagnosis would be to listen in with a buttset while the system tries to dial out.
It could be bad lines in the house. I've seen a plugged in answering machine with a pet chewed cord make phone lines act flaky.
 
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Old 06-25-11, 10:30 AM
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Feels like I'm headed toward ADT


MrRonFL

Jack = So You are saying I can use the RJ31x & not using the extra wires won't make a difference.......do I have that right?

Battery = I agree that the Trouble msg was generated due to order I connected plus many years ago on another system - a weak battery will cause a constant Trouble msg...........you do not seem to think the battery is a contributing factor

Telco lines:
1) The Telco person not only tested dial tone but dialed (with his test set) out and the line worked - then he reconnected the alarm Red & Green to the same terminals he was testing. I do not have a landline to test......but maybe I should dig one up
Note: the Demarc does have other lines in it that do not make sense to me since nothing else is connected. The Telco person did not seem to be concerned about them - only the connection that was in place for the Alarm & the house lines that had not been touched since 2006.
2) Lines IN the house - the only one in use NOW is the new one I put in yesterday from the telco demarc to the alarm.............all the other lines(rats nest) are just hanging & disconnected (by telco person)


Decided to run test from keypad again & of course, the CP Trouble msg has returned
 

Last edited by JustNoise; 06-25-11 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 06-25-11, 06:00 PM
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Really, I doubt, at this point that the issue is hardware/wiring. The only way to resolve this is to listen in while the dialer is dialing.

The biggest culprit, these days is busy signals. Alarm dialers recognize the old school "beep-beep-beep" and hang up and redial. The voice announcement that is the standard now will make the alarm sit and wait for some form of data command from the central station receiver (which, of course, never comes...).
 
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Old 06-26-11, 07:51 AM
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Interesting Point

MrRonFL
Thanks again for comments & thoughts.

Recently, I was surprised to find out ADT had acquired Broadview which was the spin off from Brinks. To me, it meant the market is consolidating down to just only a few.....or maybe soon to be one

Busy signal would not be surprising given ADT's size + my experience when I called in....although I would wonder why they would have an Alarm dialer going into an ACD type answering system at all. You would think they would be isolated - what happens when a real alarm goes off?

Then again the dialing number is probably the same as 5 yrs ago - so who knows what # it is dialing - I never had a problem with Brinks or Broadview.

For Conspiracy lovers, it even crossed my mind that ADT is creating the trouble to force people to sign up for service contracts $6 add'l (+20%) per month as a revenue growth strategy vs the scary hourly rate $80-100.

I did not change out the Jack yet because I wanted to hear your thoughts especially about the Yellow & Black just hanging not connected to anything & only the Red & Green working in a 8 wire RJ31x.

I might just swap it out today & test again - it's the last thing I can do myself.

Of course this all comes, as I'm preparing for a trip - and not really wanting to leave the alarm in this "state" wondering what might happen next.
 
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Old 06-26-11, 01:05 PM
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MrRonFL
So I went ahead & swapped out the Jack and only attached the red & green wires from the telco demarc to the 8 pole rj31x jack - left the system powered & then ran the test function from the keypad.
Surprise = after about a minute, a quick siren tone and the CP Trouble msg disappeared
So either the Jack was part of the problem or it is the ADT receiving lines that are busy (less so on a Sunday afternoon wherever they are) & the test got through.
Fingers Crossed
 
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Old 06-26-11, 07:51 PM
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Forgot One Thing

MrRonFL
That is to Offer My Sincere Thanks Again
For your listening, assistance, brainstorming & suggestions
I would like to believe all is well but ADT is the wild card in this mix

All the Best to You
 
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Old 06-26-11, 09:11 PM
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Most of this type of troubleshooting is isolating what actually changed to cause the glitch. Alarm systems, for the most part, are remarkably stable. There are few situations where the programming can be altered without human help

A change in the ownership of the central station is a prime example of the kind of thing that can make a tech tear hair out by the roots.
 
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Old 08-08-11, 08:00 AM
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Cool

I too had a CP Trouble and called ADT formerly known as Broadview for help. They had me do a bunch of keypad stuff that did not resolve my issue. They then wanted to send a tech out for $99 + trip charge and I said "NOOOO!!".

I decided to power cycle the control box. First, I disarmed the security system. Then, I unplugged the power source to the control box, removed the control panel box cover, and disconnected the battery inside(red & black battery wires).

I then waited about a minute and in reverse order, reconnected battery, screw on cover, and plugged the transformer adapter back into the wall outlet. After doing this, I CP Trouble issue had gone away. It's been 3 days now and no CP Trouble beeps.

Note: to unplug the transformer adapter from wall, you might have to remove a screw that secures it to the outlet.
 
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Old 11-15-11, 01:52 PM
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morrisma2000

CP Trouble on this system identifies a Communication Problem with the central station.
By powering down the system you have simply removed the trouble code but not addressed the cause.
If you do not run a system test or otherwise check the communication portion of the system then your alarm may not be able to call for help when help is needed. If you are paying for monitoring of this system then you are wasting your money and preventing your system from providing the security you are paying for.
Disregard if you have a non-monitored system.
 
 

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