Smoke Detectors and NX8

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  #1  
Old 07-24-12, 06:20 PM
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Smoke Detectors and NX8

Hi

Just want to confirm wiring of smoke detectors (ESL449C) to an NX8 please:



Black wire to KP Com and to Smoke Detector power negative
Red wire to KP Pos and to Smoke Detector power positive
White wire to Smoke and to Smoke Detector Alarm Detector

Blue wire to Com (alongside smoke and siren) and to Smoke Detector Alarm Detector.



Daisy chain accordingly.



The wiring diagram necessitates a power supervision unit at the end of the line should I have bought one of these also? How do I create one of these?

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers
 
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Old 07-24-12, 07:43 PM
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_Absolutely_incorrect_! That connection will damage the alarm control, the smoke detector, or both.

For a 4 wire smoke on an NX-8

Smoke + to + power on the detector
COM to - power on the detector
connect a zone input terminal to the NO terminal on the detector
connect zone common to the COM terminal on the detector.

The correct termination at the end of the line uses a relay that closes when 12v power is present. You connect the coil wires to the power terminals on the last detector. You connect one leg of the relay contact to the detector's NO, you connect the EOL resistor in _series_ with the other leg of the relay and land that on the detector's COM.

Look _carefully_ at the 4 wire detector wiring diagram on the system diagram, it's all there...
 
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Old 07-24-12, 08:19 PM
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Oh great - thank you!

A few more questions - is it necessary for me to put one of the alarm panel resistors in on the zone line?

Hmmm - so should have I purchased a specific relay associated with the smoke detectors? (and hence it would also come with an appropriate resistor?).
 
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Old 07-25-12, 03:50 AM
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The resistor (a 3.3K ohm) comes with the alarm control, and for a zone defined as a fire zone, is required. If you have an unused zone, the resistor is probably in place to bridge the zone closed (and there's usually a couple extra). Otherwise it's a common size you can get from the likes of Radio Shack.

What you want is called an "EOL relay" and they typically cost $5-15. Any small 12v relay that has a contact that is closed while energized will work, as long as it's small enough to fit behind the smoke in it's junction box.

You _can_ wire the circuit with _just_ the resistor, but you lose an important safety feature, especially with multiple detectors on the loop (more connections = more potential bad connections).
 
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Old 07-25-12, 05:37 PM
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I really appreciate your help - thanks. Your explanation is terrific.

With the resistor - is it just the one resistor I need which is wired as per your original advice - or do I also need to commence the zone wiring from the board commencing with a resistor?
 
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Old 07-25-12, 06:58 PM
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No, the resistor goes at the last device on the circuit and there is only one resistor per zone loop.

It is not uncommon for people to put the resistors for security loops at the terminal strip, because these systems are often installed on prewired houses where access to the wiring for the last contact on the loop isn't really practical.

Doing so simply converts a EOL supervised circuit into a NC circuit. You loose some troubleshooting functions and the ability to use NO devices on the same circuit, but for residential security, it's not really a big deal.
 
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Old 07-26-12, 10:17 PM
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Great - thanks!

Ive acquired a relay: 1TRR1A05D00-R TTI TTI_PCB Relays.

Hopefully this is OK - the electronics store hadnt heard of an EOL relay before.

By my reckoning against the wiring diagram: http://us.100y.com.tw/pdf_file/TRR.pdf, using the DIP type, 2 and 6 connect to the power terminals, and then use 1 and 7 as the relay connections (and I assume it doesnt matter which one is wired to the NO and COM)?.

Im hoping I got this right - but your advice would again be appreciated.

Thanks
 
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Old 07-27-12, 04:14 AM
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Yeah, that one looks like it'll work. A 12vdc coil relay is a 12vdc coil relay...
 
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Old 07-27-12, 04:20 AM
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Thanks - oh, and were you happy with my wiring suggestion?
 
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Old 08-04-12, 03:15 AM
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Hoping you can assist me a little further please.

I've wired all the smoke detectors on one line (have removed the relay for the moment). Each of them has power. I've used a 6.98k resistor on the panel (I have 8 zones in operation).



The controller is telling me the zone is open however. Was I meant to use a 3.74k resistor instead (which also came with the board)? Or did I miss something that I needed to do with the final detector on the line? Or is there an additional parameter Ive missed in the board programming?



My wiring is as per below:

Smoke + to + power on the detector (red wire)
COM to - power on the detector (black wire)
zone 4 (operating as zone 8) terminal to the NO terminal on the detector (blue wire)
Com terminal (in between zone 4 and 3) to the COM terminal on the detector (white wire).



Your advice would be appreciated.
 
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Old 08-04-12, 07:25 AM
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It sounds like you are using zone doubling and may be misreading how the zones number work under this scheme. It's not 1 & 2, 3 & 4, etc. It's 1 & 9, 2 & 10, etc.

Only the lower zones (1-8) can be used for a fire zone, and the corresponding upper zone cannot be used for anything else.
 
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Old 08-04-12, 06:55 PM
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I'm not sure what you mean?

There are 4 zone terminals on the board. I am running two detectors on each terminal except for the fourth. Wiring into zone 1 represents zones 1 and 5, zone 2 - 2 and 6 and so on.

Hence, I've added the smoke detector line onto the fourth terminal which now appears as zone 8 on the controller. It is unfortunately reporting this zone as being open I.e in alert (I'm using a Touchnav).

Are you suggesting that I can only allocate one zone to a zone terminal when that zone is a smoke detector - and hence, allowing a maximum of 7 zones in my circumstance?

Or is it something else. Im assuming I wasnt required to loop the wiring on the last smoke detector, and that the resistor Ive used is OK?
 

Last edited by hamo1234; 08-04-12 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 08-04-12, 10:09 PM
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If you have a NX-8, then there are _8_ zone inputs with 4 shared commons.

If you only have _4_ zone inputs, the you have a NX-_4_.

If so, for the north american version, zone doubling doesn't work unless you have 2 modules (2 keypads, or a keypad and another system module) in the system (don't ask me why, that's the way they set them up...)

In any case, if you have a NX-4 then you _cannot_use_the "upper" zone of a doubled pair as a fire zone, only the "lower" base zone can be used for a fire zone; and the upper zone cannot be used _at_all_.
 
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Old 08-05-12, 12:50 AM
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Thank you for your help.

It must be a NX-4 then. The zone doubling in Australia must be a little different as up to this point it has successfully operated 7 zones.

I have now removed one zone, bringing the total to six, plus the smoke detectors and hence leaving a zone terminal dedicated for the smoke detectors.

I have now tried two different zones. First, I put the smoke detectors alone on zone 4 (i.e one line of 3 detectors daisy chained with the resistor placed on the board). It still reported an open zone.

Ive moved all the zoning around and put the smoke detectors, alone, on zone two. It still reports the zone as open.

Is it worth mentioning that all zones, including the smoke, are running the 6.98k resistor?

What am I missing?
 
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Old 08-05-12, 05:22 AM
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PS - Ive also disconnected the daisy chain and isolated just one smoke detector and it continues to behave in the same manner.
 
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Old 08-05-12, 08:09 AM
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I had missed that you are Australia. Yes, I have been told that the 2 module thing is peculiar to the north american models.

The 3.74k resistor is for the lower zone numbers (1-4), the 6.98k is for the doubled zones (5-8).

Simple test: disconnect the zone wires and meter them with an ohm meter. Do you see the eol resistance? If not, then you made a mistake wiring the detectors.

In general, for a novice, the smart way to work on stuff like this is to "dummy" all of the zones with the resistors, get your programming right, _then_ land the field wiring. That way you don't end up chasing your tail trying to determine which end of the wire is the source of the fault.
 
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Old 08-05-12, 10:47 PM
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Hmm - the question is whether the NX8 board is the same price over your way as a NX4 here then? Seems a silly programming approach.

OK, the good news is that I have both power and resistance measured throughout the line. Ive measured the same resistance at both the first detector and the last.

Ive also swapped the resistor for the 3.74k.

None of this has made a difference. I should point out that I have the smoke detectors currently designated as category 16 instead of the allocated 28 for fire to prevent the instant alarming whilst Im still fault finding. I had allocated them to 28 but quickly re-allocated them to 16. Would I need to turn them back to 28 and reset them from the panel or the fact that theyve been powered off and on is sufficient? (the fact that the zone is still open suggests to me it doesnt matter what they are categorised as at this stage).

Other than this Im assuming there is no other programming Ive missed to inform the system that this zone is a fire zone?

The only other thing I can think of is the wiring at the terminating detector - should this be wired so that it loops back onto the empty terminals?
 
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Old 08-06-12, 03:37 AM
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Subsequent to my last post -I have put the line of detectors back on the Z4 terminal. My other 6 zones are wired to the other zone terminals (although I do need to change some resistors on these now as it has mucked up the sequencing that I had previously).



l have tried both types of resistors supplied with the board both at the zone terminal and at the last detectors com. This appears to make no difference.



I have now categorised both zone 4 and 8 as 28. This at least has stopped zone 8 being reported as open. As Im still using the 3.78 resistor, indicating zone four as the fire zone is correct. Interestingly, if I try to change zone 8 to a different category, it indicates this as a fire zone in trouble also it could be because I dont have any other zones attached to this terminal?



What else can I check?



Is it necessary for me top put a resistor on each of the detectors?

Finding this very frustrating - but determined to resolve it - Im sure it is something simple......
 
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Old 08-06-12, 03:49 AM
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Does the zone clear if you have the EOL resistors _only_ on the motherboard terminialsZ? Yes? or No?

The resistor should be in parallel with the Normally Open contacts on the detector. With the ESL-449C you could use the extra terminals as I think you are describing.

Yes, the NX-8 is markedly more expensive than a NX4.

If your manual looks like this one for a DAS NX-4: http://www.relysecurity.com.au/manua...l%20Manual.pdf

The resistor wiring diagram for the 4-wire smoke, actually is incorrect.
 
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Old 08-06-12, 04:20 AM
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No. I cant get the zone to clear at all - its reporting as being in trouble.

The manuals are the same.

The wiring diagram in the manual is different to how I have it. I have the Zone terminal wired to the com on the SD (currently with the resistor at EOL). Is there a risk of damage if I attempt to put the resistor on the com to NO line?

Or, is it possible that the wiring for Oz is different and I should attempt to wire according to the diagram?

In the wiring diagram it appears the resistor is on the board terminal rather than the SD - am I reading it correctly?
 
  #21  
Old 08-06-12, 11:21 AM
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If the zone will not clear with only a resistor, and no other field wiring, on the zone input between zone and common, then there is something else wrong.

Either you have the wrong resistor, or you don't actually have the system configured for zone doubling, or the zone input itself is faulty.
 
  #22  
Old 08-06-12, 10:51 PM
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Thanks very much for your help - I finally resolved it after hours of fault finding.

What fixed it: sealing off zone 8 with a 6.98 k resistor. Terminating the final detector with a 3.3 k resistor on the zone 4 line, and wiring to the first no and com terminals of the last smoke detector respectively instead of the second.

What I thought was going to be a 5 minute job has now consumed hours - but I got there in the end and learned a bit along the way.

Thanks again.
 
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