Door Contacts

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-23-13, 08:11 PM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
Door Contacts

The attached 2 pictures show the existing alarm contacts of one of my old doors which are ready for replacement. This is a two pane patio door and each pane contains a stationary unit which is attached to the doors frame and another one which moves with the door when the door opens

My question is the contact which is attached to the moving doors what is the maximum distance allowed to be from the stationary contact to function properly? Like can it be 1/2" or 1" away from the stationary unit or it must almost touch the stationary unit?

Since I replaced the doors I like to know this information so I can re install them to suite my new wiring layout
 
Attached Images   
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-23-13, 08:59 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 58,593
Received 1,045 Votes on 969 Posts
I'm guessing that's a wireless transmitter in the second picture and that you are using the internal magnetic switch as well as a separate remote mag switch.

It's best to keep the gap as close as possible..... not to exceed like 1/2" max. Every magnetic switch has a maximum distance it will perform at. If you try to stretch it you will get false alarms.

If you need to cover a wide gap then they make wide gap switches.
 
  #3  
Old 04-24-13, 05:37 AM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
Not familiar with alarms terminology but now you mentioned it yes itís a wireless transmitter with magnetic switch + separate remote mag switch. Had that system installed about 14 years ago when I bought my house and it has performed very well. The control panel says "First Alert"; I assume is the manufacturer or brand

1/2" is more than I need Pjmax and I will also replace the cable which looks like a std phone wiring with yellow / green wires inside.

Thanks for your time PJmax
 
  #4  
Old 04-24-13, 06:30 AM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
Hey PJmax I'm not very observant but in the process of reconnecting my new door contacts I noticed that the new doors only have one moving door and the other one is stationary. The old ones had both panes movable and that's why I had two sets of contacts.

So now if I setup only the wireless transmitter on the movable door with its magnetic contact does it matter if I donít connect the separate mag switch?

I mean do I have to do any programming to let my control station know that I only have now one set of contacts for this zone?

Thanks
 
  #5  
Old 04-24-13, 10:13 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
Posts: 16,646
Received 89 Votes on 83 Posts
Just take a scrap of wire and jumper the external contact connector terminals together. That will close the external contact point, and you will be good to go.

No need to mess with programming.

First Alert systems are modified Ademco panels.
 
  #6  
Old 04-24-13, 04:20 PM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
Thank you MrRonFL for the help

Actually I was thinking to do that but I found the manual of my system, it was installed in 1999, and found the BYPASS key on my control panel can be used to do what I wanted.

Donít know if there is any advantage / disadvantage to use the Bypass or jumper the terminals together as you stated

Appreciate your time
 
  #7  
Old 04-24-13, 04:51 PM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
Posts: 16,646
Received 89 Votes on 83 Posts
The bypass is temporary, and you will have to do it each time you arm.
 
  #8  
Old 04-24-13, 05:58 PM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
ok, tomorrow I will open the transmitter and jumper the two contacts.

The manual says how to Bypass a zone but doesn't say how to remove the Bypass from a zone. So after I jumper the two contacts how do I remove the Bypass?
 
  #9  
Old 04-24-13, 06:02 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 58,593
Received 1,045 Votes on 969 Posts
Arm and then disarm your system. That should remove the bypass.
 
  #10  
Old 04-24-13, 07:41 PM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
ok will do that tomorrow

Thanks PJmax
 
  #11  
Old 04-25-13, 07:58 AM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
Got the jumper on the contacts as we discussed and now I donít have to use the Bypass, thanks for the info.

Since I'm on this subject, I have another wireless unit upstairs in the corridor which for years is not used because the battery cost about $20 and I never replace it. Another reason I donít use this sensor is that if anyone enter the house they must trigger the doors / window alarm first and so I find it useless to spend the money.

But on my control panel I always have the message "Zone 17 CHECK". Is there an easy way to eliminate this message?
 
  #12  
Old 04-25-13, 08:11 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 58,593
Received 1,045 Votes on 969 Posts
You would need to remove that point from programming.
Not sure what model alarm you have....would need that to change programming.
 
  #13  
Old 04-25-13, 09:24 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
Posts: 16,646
Received 89 Votes on 83 Posts
Actually, for the standard ademco transmitter, the battery is a CR-123 battery. Those are about 5-7 dollars at most CVS/Walgreens/Walmarts.

$20 was probably what the First Alert dealer was quoting.

Depending on which model your system is, you generally have to have a 2-line alpha model (with zone descriptors) instead of the fixed alpha keypads (that only show 2 digit zone numbers) in order to get into zone programming to delete a transmitter.
 
  #14  
Old 04-25-13, 02:45 PM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
The battery on the corridor wireless transmitter is Energizer Photo Lithium Technology and there are these numbers on it, 123, 3.8V, 2012. About 6 years ago when I went to Radio Shack they told me about $20, if it was $5-7 I would have bought it

The manual I have says on the cover front FA147C Security Systems and I attach a picture of my control panel in case it's of any help.

I donít think I will be able to do any programming, sounds too involved and I thought it was a matter of using a jumper again or something
 
Attached Images  
  #15  
Old 04-25-13, 05:02 PM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
Posts: 16,646
Received 89 Votes on 83 Posts
Yes, you have a fixed alpha keypad. No zone programming for you.

Those batteries did used to be much more expensive. The price has come down, a lot. $20 will get you a _12_ pack, these days...

Streamlight CR123 Lithium 3-Volt Batteries (12-Pack)-85177 at The Home Depot
 
  #16  
Old 04-25-13, 06:32 PM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
I will go to the store tomorrow and see what I can get

Thanks for the help MrRonFL
 
  #17  
Old 04-26-13, 01:10 PM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
What the CR means on these batteries?

Anyway at the local Home Depot these batteries are $10.74 each and since I need 2 + taxes we are talking about $25, not a big deal but since the sensor they serve is not important I will pass for now.

Perhaps in US these batteries are much less expensive or the CR indicates a different battery than mine (I cant see any CR on mine)
 
  #18  
Old 04-26-13, 02:24 PM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
Posts: 16,646
Received 89 Votes on 83 Posts
Different brands use different part numbers for the same battery. Depending on the brand it will be labeled 123A, RL123A, DL123A, EL123AP, K123LA, CR123A, or CR123. Non-US prices may be higher.
 
  #19  
Old 04-29-13, 09:38 PM
M
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Re

If your new doors only have one moving door and the other one is stationary.Than you need only singles set of contact when you are using the setup only the wireless transmitter on the movable door with its magnetic contact.
 
  #20  
Old 04-30-13, 04:54 AM
kolias's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,431
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
Thank you Morkel, that's what I did
 
  #21  
Old 08-26-13, 06:24 AM
R
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Nigeria
Posts: 2
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
maximum number of magnetic contacts on a zone

im presently having a accenta mini intrusion panel on which i have used 2 zones
note that the zone one has 10 magnetic contacts and zone 2 has 4 magnetic contacts. during renovation the contractor damaged the zone cable and its very had to detect the location

the manual says that i can only have 10 magnetic contacts on a zone but i need to add the other 4 from the zone 2 to the zone 1.

can i have 14 magnetic contacts on a zone.

if yes tell me how to go about it
 
  #22  
Old 08-26-13, 09:55 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
Posts: 16,646
Received 89 Votes on 83 Posts
Best installation practices brings a separate pair of wires back to the panel location instead of running a single cable from contact to contact. Once all the pairs are at the head end, they are tied together to create the series circuit.

If your contacts were installed using the second method of running a single pair from contact to contact, there is no practical way to simply tack the 4 contacts to the other loop, you would still have to find the break that is keeping the zone open.
 
  #23  
Old 08-28-13, 07:48 AM
R
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Nigeria
Posts: 2
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
actually we have tried everything to get the cable connected to the damaged ones but it doesnt work out

we already connected the other 4 magnetic contacts to the other loop but seems not working.

we checked for continuity on the loop and its active, also check the resistivity and its ok.

just want to know if there is anything we can do or add to the loop to have the 14 magnetic contacts work on a zone
 
  #24  
Old 08-28-13, 09:03 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 58,593
Received 1,045 Votes on 969 Posts
I've never seen a limit on the number of magnetic switches on a zone.
However, when you have as many as you do on a zone, when you have a problem, it will be a challenge to find it.


You have a current loop of 10 mag switches that is working. You would open that loop at any point to add in the four additional ones but you need to have those four working in a closed loop. If the wiring was cut in the wall between switches then you can't get a closed loop on those four.

Name:  loop.jpg
Views: 1123
Size:  16.6 KB
 
  #25  
Old 08-30-13, 02:23 PM
2
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 55
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
On the OPís original question about magnetic sensor gap or distance, here is what I would do: decide where to mount and proceed to mount either the movable part (magnet on the door) or the stationary part (Hall switch sensor with wires) first. This decision is mainly based on the door/frame structure and esthetic. Once one part had been mounted, then close the door and adjust other part Ė move away to toward the other part -- for an optimum performance. Optimum performance is achieved when the alarm triggered with the door being opened just a small distance Ė 5 to 10mm , preventing the intruder from seeing the sensor through the opening gap before it set the alarm. One can use the chime function or a DVMís Ohm meter to monitor the sensor trigger state during the distance adjustment.

The setup is safe from fault alarm since the door sensors use magnet and Hall switch, and all Hall switches have built in hysteresis characteristic in its operation.

A wide opening door gap would allow the intruder to locate and nullify the sensor useless with a piece of magnet attached either to the door frame or to the door, or both.

Sapote
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: