Newbie learning DSC1616 & wireless sender programming

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Old 06-01-13, 05:10 PM
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Newbie learning DSC1616 & wireless sender programming

My system
DSC Honeywell Home Security Alarm System | eBay

2 - DSC RFK 5501-433 (v.1.20) keypad units
1 - DSC PC1616 v.4.6 [per board label]
1 - Telguard Digital TG-4 Cellular Radio
1 - Honeywell AD 48 Transformer
1 - Honeywell BP 6217 Siren
1 - Wireless Motion Sensor WS4904P

The “professionally uninstalled” system came to me with an unknown Installer’s Code and Master Code, so I found this site & instructions how to perform the hardwired Restore to Defaults. I performed this and the [999] reset, and finally got the keypads to connect and seem to behave correctly.

My experience and background: Degreed mechanical engineer with a good grasp of electricity from electronics to 480V AC. I understand basic circuits, volts, ohms, capacitance. I have an extensive troubleshooting and service background in automotive, production, and all such manner of equipment. I have all the tools one might need- Fluke multimeter, etc., and will buy a connecting cable and such if required. I understand the concept of NO and NC alarm loops, and the use or lack of EOL resistors. I installed the entire previous system, ran all the wires, put in all the hardwired sensors. Due to the University having plenty on hand for cheap, most of the sensor wiring was done with Belden 12-conductor shielded computer signal wire. I tested the large [and small] electrolytic capacitors in the previous [dead] alarm’s board and found no problems- so I gave up on it. I have a laptop computer but computers have never worked the same for me as they do for others.

My needs are meager- I am not interested in being on a monthly payment monitoring plan. I just want to be alerted audibly if the local idiot youths decide to enter the home or garage w/o permission, or the house door gets opened at night. If I can get it to call my family and/or my cell phone too that will be great. I would like to eventually add Smoke/ Fire detectors located in the Garage [currently only intrusion detection], and probably change some of the house stand-alone battery powered smokes to compatible wireless units. I am sure that “partitions” will not be needed here.

I previously had 4 hardwired zones and one Panic Button wired circuit.
1 = front door, delay in/out of course
2 = back door, delay in/out
3 = basement door - rarely used, typically bypassed. Brought onboard while on vacation.
4 = Garage - instant activation
5 = Panic, 24-hr instant activation even if Radio Shack 49-475 system was not armed.

It looks like now I can have the above plus 32 (?!?!) wireless zones by way of the RFK type keypads? Do the wireless zones have to be in the range above 16? The instructions are not clear on this.

One of the main issues confusing me at this time is that the programming is done BLIND?! I.e., for programming zone definitions or attributes for the first few (8 or 16) zones, section [001], you enter (using the abbreviation “IC” for “Installer Code” which is still the default “5555” at this time:
*8 [IC] 001 …
and then a series of up to sixteen 2-digit zone defining codes… but at NO TIME does the display show you where you are in the process, how many you have entered already, how many are yet to go, or any such useful information. So, if you get interrupted or whatnot… start over. Is the cable to the computer method any better?

Most of the keypad manual is for 5500 models which does not apply to my RFK5501-433 models… Section [900] (system ID) for example does nothing for me.

So far I have read the forum FAQ and terminology stickies, and found the appropriate manuals on line and gone thru them and have a fair grasp of the programming procedures as far as how to get to a given programming location and what to put there to achieve the desired results, based on the behavior as set forth in the Installer’s Guide to the Galaxy. I have:
* The wiring diagram on the “can” lid with typical NC and NO hookups shown
* Installation Guide for PC1616 1832 1842 systems - 16 pgs
* Installation Guide with appendices A thru D- 80 pgs or so, extensive.
* Install guide for RFK5501-433 keypads - 8 pgs
* Factory issue Inst’n Guide for Telguard TG-4, with SN written on front
* Other manuals as can be found on the internet.

So…

Is there a way to program the system to activate my old pre-alarm beeper during the entry dalay? It’s only about 50 mA and I cannot really hear the keypad beeps what with family and traffic noise and bad hearing.

Keypads’ “P/Z” terminal - PGM/zone - what is it for?
How to wire/ use it? I gather that it is a switched negative terminal, such that when active, it completes your circuit from AUX+ voltage thru your relay or whatnot to ground.
Can each keypad use its P/Z terminal independently, or if one goes active, the other does also? I had plenty of wires in the keypad locations, so all 5 of the keypad terminals got a wire back to the central box. The first 4 wires [red black yellow green] to both keypads are simply hooked in parallel per the install illustration, of course. The 5th wire is… awaiting further hintage.

What about the main board’s “PGM1” and PGM2” ?? I am guessing this undefined TLA [Two- or Three-Letter Acronyms] “PGM” is for ProGraMmable line, as in, you can select any of a number of functions for it to perform, when you program the system. I see per section 1.6 of the Inst. Manual that #1 can support 50mA and #2 can support 300mA of current.

Entering the Wireless Motion Detector ESN [Love them undefined TLA’s! At least this one can be guessed] - mine has hex codes, two in a row… the example on this forum says for “12345A” you actually enter
12345*1*
where “ * 1 * ” tells the machine
“here comes a hex digit; 1==> ‘A’; ok, we are done with hex”
The manual said somewhere that you can enter a string of hex digits with only and exactly a start and stop asterisk - e.g. for 12ABC6, one would actually press
12*123*6
but in reading these forum tips, it appears that one might need the asterisk on EACH SIDE of EVERY HEX digit, thusly:
12*1*2*3*6
for the above string. Which way is correct? I tried both ways, and still have no joy in getting the wireless smoke detector to talk to the keypad.

I see we can also program the system to auto-arm after [insert favorite time here]. However, it appears that this action is performed exactly once, only if system is “ready”.
I have had problems in the past with certain family members failing to arm the system at night. “I was just going out for a minute,” “I am home and awake, why should I??” Excuses like that.
Therefore, I intend to use the main board’s PGM #2 line to activate a relay anytime the system is ready to arm. This signal will then be used in conjunction with a normal appliance timer and separate beeper in the person’s room, to activate an annoying nagging beeper if the alarm is not armed e.g., 9pm thru 6am… after some brief allowable delay for dashing in and out.
Perhaps another option would be to implement the feature which arms the system automatically after [insert number here] minutes of no activity [as in, sensor activation, I presume]? I don’t think I want that to take place any time of day though- just after normal daytime hours.

Some of the other confusing areas I could use help with:

What is “automatic SIA”?

Why would one need 32 Access Codes? What benefit can be had from having different users with different codes? So you can tell who came and went and when? How does one view this information?

Telguard TG-4 Install manual has some unfamiliar TLA’s
“pick up the POTS phone” - what is a POTS phone?

“c/c reporting format” - what is “c/c”? Command center, as in monitoring company?

“STC1 trip output” - what is “STC” ?

“CFC number of events” - what is “CFC” ?

“PPF Display” - what is “PPF ??

Telguard TG-4 hookup illustration shows battery in and “12V AC” in - but I have only the 16V AC wall wart for the main box- is it OK to use that voltage in the “twelve volt” input on the TG-4 module? I assume the BATTERY terminals just hook to the main box’s 12V battery wires in parallel.

System came with a phone type modular to wires jack box- is this the “RJ31X” referred to? This junction / phone wires box is about 2x2x3/4 inch, and has absolutely no model number clue on it of course. It looks like you run the house’s incoming phone lines into this at the screw terminals [4 = R = Red; 5 = T = Gn], then out another pair [7 = Red, 8 = Gn] to the rest of the house oldschool landline phones, and also connect the little module’s RJ45 common type jack by way of your favorite wire to the similar jack within the Telguard module. That way, the Telguard can either allow normal use of the house landline phones, or, in the event of an alarm requiring it to do so, snatch control of the line and place the necessary calls by way of the landline… But I see it also has an antenna, so it can make calls by way of the cell network?

Telguard TG-4 illustration shows both an NC and NO 24-hr [“panic” type] circuit between main alarm board and Telguard unit… is this an either-or thing, or do BOTH have to be in place? Wait, why would the TG-4 need to be connected to a sensor zone? Worst instructions ever.

If I am going to use the Telguard only to call family and such, do I need TLM (telephone line monitor) in section 015, option 7 to be ON or OFF?

“Section 351 - Communicator Call Directions - This determines which number will be called for alarms in Partition 1. The default for all partitions is Telephone Number 1 ON, Telephone Number 2 OFF.” - does this mean that the system will dial exactly ONE phone number and then give up, even if you have two or three numbers in place?

Section 4 - types of zones - type 26 =24-hr non-alarm - will not create an alarm- well… what DOES it do then? How would one use this?

Type 30 - “supervisory” - activates the (barely audible) keypad buzzer - what would one use this for? It sounds like a very local [i.e., does not scream at the world and call the cops] mini-alarm. Might be good for a tamper switch on the gun cabinet- alert the folks if anyone opens the gun storage cabinet, whether the alarm is armed or not?

Type 87 is delayed 24-hr Fire - this would be used for when I add a wireless smoke detector to the garage then?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Right now, the most pressing issues are using the louder entry delay beeper, and learning how to activate a wireless unit. If I can learn to do one wireless, I can learn to do additional units. The phone dialing stuff and other more intricate options I can work on later as needs and time allow. Clearly this system is orders of magnitude more than I need… but I think I might grow to like it a lot.
 
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Old 06-01-13, 06:20 PM
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The keypad actually does display the programming. The little line of numbers at the top of the 5501 keypads takes the place of the LEDs on a LED model keypad.

It's not as easy to read as the LCD keypad models, but the info is there, you just have to use the chart in the programming instructions.

Your existing 12VDC sounder device will work.

Some of the other confusing areas I could use help with:

What is “automatic SIA”?
Basically the SIA central station reporting format automatically generates the correct signals when the format is selected.

Why would one need 32 Access Codes? What benefit can be had from having different users with different codes? So you can tell who came and went and when? How does one view this information?
These systems are actually designed to accommodate business use where being able to track multiple users is needed. In fact the bulk of the settings aren't really germane to typical residential installs. The log record can be viewed through an alpha keypad (5500 class).

Telguard TG-4 Install manual has some unfamiliar TLA’s
“pick up the POTS phone” - what is a POTS phone?
"Plain Old Telephone Service": not the official name, but that's what people call it.

“c/c reporting format” - what is “c/c”? Command center, as in monitoring company?
Actually Telgard uses C/C to refer to the base alarm system.

“STC1 trip output” - what is “STC” ?
Supervisory Trip output to tell the host system that there's something wrong with

“CFC number of events” - what is “CFC” ?

“PPF Display” - what is “PPF ??
Those are specific central station reports for the status of the radio itself. In practice, they aren't something that you are going to mess with as a DIY.

Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/ne...#ixzz2V0zGPOPn

Slog through the manuals. Most of your questions are in there, and the vast bulk of the settings on the alarm control never need to be changed from the factory default for a residential system.
 
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Old 06-01-13, 08:51 PM
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OK, thanks

Tonight I added the garage loop, basement door, and tried to add the N.O. panic zone switches but evidently you cannot just have N.O. switches connected to a zone, it has to have a 5.6k EOL resistor, which I don't have any of handy. I then disabled zone 3 (basement door) because it's not really needed... by programming section [001] with (same thing it had for the first 2 pairs of digits) then 00 for "ignore me" zone, then # # to escape.

I have the previous noisemaker ["bell"] ready to use as it was before- for testing I have the one that came with the system hooked up within the house, muted, so as not to annoy the neighbors.

I would still like to hear how to make my SECONDARY (in-house, not so loud) beeper go off during Entry [and if need be, exit] delay terms.

Oh and I finally found the clues for the RJ31X box. The clues are molded into the cover, and were nigh impossible to see. I had to go over them with a Sharpie and then use the illuminated magnifier to have any hope of deciphering the illustration. Evidently designed by a different company, none of the colors match that shown in the DSC hookup illustration. Furthermore, the accompanying cable has an RJ45 plug, which fits into the junction just like a Made in China device can be expected to, but its other end has fork terminals, which are NOT compatible with the terminal block in the DSC alarm "can." Unless modified. I have enough phone experience to know that Red & Green are the usual lines, and it does matter which one is what.

DSC manual:
- it appears the T&R are incoming Tel. Co. lines, and the "-1" terminals go out to the site phones, but this could be just the way it's drawn.
Ring to RED in RJ31X
TIP to GREEN in RJ31X
R-1 to GRY in RJ31X
T-1 to BRN in RJ31X
RJ31X also must wire to (Incoming Phone Company Lines) and (Out to site landline phones) with two wires each, but the colors, terminal numbers, and other pertinent info is kept secret.

As I understand it, then, if you pull the RJ45 cable end from the RJ31X module, then the incoming telco lines are connected right across to the house. When you insert the RJ45, it breaks that connection and instead sends the four wires all to the alarm controller where one of 2 conditions will exist:
1) life is normal and IN is connected right thru to OUT, or,
2) Alarm exists, house phones are dropped so that alarm can use the telco wires w/o interference.
Therefore, the RJ31X is kind of unnecessary, but it's handy if you ever want to separate the alarm from the phone wiring by simply unplugging an RJ45 modular jack wire. Please correct me if this is not the case.


Whereas, the minute illustration in the cover of the RJ31X says:

TEL CO "R" goes to #1... which traces thru to the BROWN wire of the fork-to-RJ45 adapter cable.
TEL CO "T" goes to #8, which traces thru to the cable's GRAY wire.
This is exactly bass-ackwards of the DSC diagram. RJ45 assembled wrong??

The RJ45 colors are, tang up and facing the business end, with wire leading away from the viewer, Left to Right:
Gy OR BK R Gn Y Bu Brown

The screws on the junction block of course are not numbered, but with the RJ45 block at the bottom, proceeding CW from the far left, we have
Gy Pnk Bk R Gn Y Bu Brn

Note that the "red" long forked to RJ45 adapter cable wire is actually more of a Pink within the cable, which becomes true Red within the RJ31X module, between the backside of the RJ45 and the RJ31X's 4th screw. Whereas the jumper cable's Orange forked wire becomes Pink on the backside of the RJ45 and within the RJ31X block, and runs to the 2nd screw terminal. Good grief.

To summarize the RJ31X and its short RJ45-to-forks cable, CW from the left
Screw within RJ31X in the RJ45/Cable
1 Gy Gy
2 Pink Or <== FAIL
3 Bk Bk
4 Red Pinkish <== near-FAIL
5 Gn Gn
6 Y Y
7 Bu Bu
8 Brn Brn

If anyone has photos or text on EXACTLY how to connect these wires, that would sure help. The manuals ARE NOT helping. I can alter the house phone wiring all I like, have changed it a lot over the years already. I know where it enters so I can commandeer the signal right there.

I am guessing that if I ignore the color changes within the wiring & junction blocks and end up with incoming Tel. Co. wires going to the DSC box's TIP = Green and RING = Red, and the output able to operate a phone, then all will be well.
 
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Old 06-02-13, 06:30 AM
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DSC DLS cable - how to attach to computer with no DB9

I find this cable for cheap

PCLINK-SCW | DSC Computer Interface | Home Security Store

My question:

will this plug into my laptop's similar looking RJ45-ish port and voila' I am talking to the DSC1616 with the computer?

I have a serial-ish [screen?] port with 15 female pins holes in 3 rows of five, but the cable's RJ-ish to computer adapter I see above has a 2-row 9 pin configuration which requires the computer port to have male pins.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FYI here's a pinout for the DB9 to 1616 board cable

http://pinouts.ru/DevicesCables/dsc_...n_pinout.shtml
 
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Old 06-02-13, 07:47 AM
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DSC1616 Programming fails 01

DSC1616, RFK5501-433 keypads x2

Evidently these keypads have no alpha display, and we have one of these occasions where a higher model number is NOT necessarily a better thing- the 5500 keypads have actual words I guess.

using this 68-pg manual:
http://www.walkerhomesecurity.com/ho...007359r003.pdf

So far, programming user attributes is not working. I do have ~8 2-digit user codes entered, went smoothly. Setting attributes for each user, not so smooth. The system does NOT respond according to the manual.

Not sure what "duress" is supposed to do, user #33, but all it does at this time is turn the alarm off like any other user code.

Manual says, at the bottom of page 6:
*5 [MC (Master Code) or SC (supervisor Code)] [9] [2-digit user ID]
gets you to a screen where you can toggle on/off your favorite features.

In reality, the system will not accept the 9 or 09 except as another user ID known as "09" of course.

Tips appreciated.
 
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Old 06-02-13, 07:53 AM
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Auto Arming Times

"Auto-arm Time/Day: Press the number corresponding to the day of the week (1=Sunday, 2=Monday etc.) followed by the auto-
arm time (HH:MM). Program the time using military standard (e.g., 8:00 pm = 20:00 hours)."

edit: got it to work after entering the sequence correctly.
 
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Old 06-02-13, 08:48 AM
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Phone connections:
Alarms can be setup as stand alone systems. To connect them into the telephone lines, it needs to be done correctly, or else someone could prevent the system from dialing out by simply taking a house phone off the hook. This trick is called line siezure, and is accomplished by circuitry built into nearly all modern alarm controls.

The FCC and telecom providers require a means to disconnect alarm systems from the house wiring, for testing and repairs. This is accomplished using a
RJ-31x jack and cord. The basics of hooking this connection can be found at this article: How to Wire an RJ31X Jack | HomeTech TechWiki

Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...#ixzz2V4cX4DdD

There's no "secret" to the phone wire colors. Home phone wiring is not really standardized in any real way, so you have to identify the correct pairs for your particular phone wiring by using a phone test set or a wired phone handset.

For the spade terminals, just cut one of the prongs off to go into the circuit board connector...

The best you can do for your interior sounder is to make your sounder follow the entry and exit delay sounds that the keypads make. You program one of the PGM outputs for option 07.
 
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Old 06-02-13, 08:53 AM
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No, you need a usb-serial converter.
 
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Old 06-02-13, 08:55 AM
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Treat a 5501 keypad like a LED model keypad. The row of zone numbers at the top of the display takes the place of the LEDs. You use the LED table in the installer manual to translate the data.
 
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Old 06-02-13, 09:25 AM
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Thanks, Ron

I read the FAQ previously

I will go see the phone wiring link and will use the RJ31X since it allows easy disconnect of the 2 systems for maintenance &c.

Oh yeah
the illustration HERE
How to Wire an RJ31X Jack | HomeTech TechWiki
is what I would expect and what I physically see as far as the bypassing within the RJ31X. The molded in illustration in the cover of my RJ31X **is not correctly drawn** as one might expect with things made in China of course.

I did manage to program PGM1 for type 07 and the mini beeper now follows the chime output of the keypads, which is almost exactly what I wanted.
 
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Old 06-02-13, 11:55 AM
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I understand the LCD's numbers showing options, and toggling them on and off.

The LED chart, as seen on page 9, section 3.3.4, makes no sense to me. I cannot fathom what they are trying to show. Engineering degrees are just not enough I guess. Are they trying to show the factory defaults with the darker boxes? The legend says a dark box is "zone light on" but does not explain why some are shown on and some are off, nor why each of zones 1 thru 4 differ, nor why only four zones are shown. And what is the hex section for? This is exceedingly poor communication of what they were trying to show. I cannot be the only one that does not understand this.

The latest programming fails are:

[168] Daylight Saving Time - manual says i might enter
*8 5555 168 003 002 001 002 001
for:
Enter Installer programming section 168;
Data 3rd month, 2nd week, first day of that week (Sunday), 2am, 1 hr adj.

However, in reality, after entering just "00" part of the string after 168... the display jumps to showing "1 2" and some beeps indicate that you are not entering things correctly.

Fail.

Ditto for section [169], the fall back part of DST.
 
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Old 06-02-13, 03:23 PM
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Here's the BEST view of the RJ31X wiring

3:50 into the show

How to Wire a DSC Security System Control Panel - YouTube

cuts right to the chase
 
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Old 06-02-13, 03:37 PM
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oh ok
so that plugs into my usb on the laptop and has a male-pin DB9 connector
and, that, plus the aforementioned cable, and some software gets me into a connected state.


where does one find this elusive animal? I recall reading here that many brands do not work right and 1 or 2 brands DO work right.

I would prefer the one that works right.

Well, here's one, dirt cheap at a mere $25
Amazon.com: USB To Serial Adapter: Electronics

Starting wonder if this is worth $50 just to get started down this road.
Anyone used this software with success? How about a screen shot showing what to expect?

Aha

6ft USB to RS232 Serial 9 Pin RS 232 DB9 Cable Cord Adapter | eBay

$5 delivered.... I'm guessing this is not "the one that is known to work"
 
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Old 06-02-13, 04:29 PM
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DSC1616 Programming fails 02 - wireless no workee

DCS 1616 Model, v.4.60 per sticker on the board
Two Keypads RFK5501-433 v 1.20 both identical
Wireless Motion Detector WS4904P [FCC ID F5306WS4904], Z823, 70008376

Wireless Motion Detector not working
Installed to Zone 6
Has battery, red light seems to indicate a warm body detected

Testing with [904] per page 26 of the Installer’s Guide results in:
“6” shown on the large number on the keypad as if ck’g zone 6
nothing else if MD is quiet
if MD flashes its light, then, 5 seconds later, the keypad light flashes 4 [not 3] times indicating “bad” per the Guide.

Done so far:

Section [377] Communication Variables - left at defaults

Section 380 (all systems) - First Communicator Option Code -
I made certain that option 1 (Communications Enabled) is ON (The default is ON.)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
per research on this forum:

To enroll and install a wireless device to Zone 6:
*8 [installer code]
[001] xx xx xx xx xx 05
+++
“x” is whatever digits those first five zones required; “05” sets Zone 6 for Stay/Away. I just re-did this and then it flashed "6" at me and claims that it is "open" which seems wrong since the MD is currently facing the wall so it won't detect anything until I want it to.


[202] Turn on attribute 7 (press the 7 key toggle the attribute on)#
+++
Author failed to cite the name of his [202] section, it may differ for my 1616 system?
??? [202] on my system is “Partition Zone Assignments” according to the system Installer's Guide. But wait, there's MORE... per the KEYPAD installer's guide, [202] is DOOR CHIME SOUND PROGRAMMING, with [202] being the noises made for the sensing of Zone #2... but when I tried changing the programming so that only "3" appeared on the display here, which should have gotten me a BING BING sound, it had NO effect. Std issue 6 beeps if the CHIME feature is on. So, I set [202] back to "12345678" and hope that does not destroy other features. The manuals do not even agree on what section of the system does what... FAIL.

I sent ahead and tried this. The instructions for [202] make no sense, and entering anything above [205] for a section results in the ERR noise. Meh.

[106] Turn on attribute 8 (as above, press the 8 key; you will see the corresponding digit turn on in the zone display at the top of the LCD display)
+++
OK I sent ahead and activated the “8” on the LCD display in [106]
It now says “1234 678”

I “enrolled” the device with ESN “3192BF” by actually punching in:
*8 5555 804 06 3 1 9 2 *2 *6
and all the right beeps seemed to emanate from the Pad of Joy.

So, what am I doing wrong?
 

Last edited by Freddy_Z; 06-02-13 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 06-02-13, 04:43 PM
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Angry DSC1616 Programming fails 03 - Keypad "Trouble" icon

DCS 1616 Model, v.4.60 per sticker on the board
Two Keypads RFK5501-433 v 1.20 both identical
Wireless Motion Detector WS4904P [FCC ID F5306WS4904], Z823, 70008376

Yellow triangle on the keypads indicates “system trouble”

*2 to look into it gets me

1 45

on the display… from here, pressing:
1 the display changes to just “4”
4 results in no activity, no changes
5 blanks the screen, nothing at all displayed.

Appendix D of the Guide says “1” could be a lot of stuff, but I think not:
Light [1]* Service Required - Press [1] for more information
[1] Low Battery
[2] Bell Circuit
[3] General System Trouble
[4] General system Tamper
[5] Module Supervision
[6] RF Jam Detected
[7] PC5204 Low Battery
[8] PC5204 AC Failure
++++
There is no “*” on the display to illuminate
The battery is not low
The bell is attached and working
A tamper needs to be reset ?? From wireless motion detector testing?
Module supervision has been reset a few times via section [902]
The MD is 2 ft from the keypads so RF issues seem unlikely
The entire thing is maybe 3 months old so a bad battery seems unlikely. I can ck voltage.
PC5204 low battery or AC failure is N/A to this system.
The AC is working fine. 18.2 at the board per Fluke meter.

Now what?
 
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Old 06-02-13, 04:48 PM
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DSC1616 Programming fails 04 - Keypad Tamper NW?

DCS 1616 Model, v.4.60 per sticker on the board
Two Keypads RFK5501-433 v 1.20 both identical
Wireless Motion Detector WS4904P [FCC ID F5306WS4904], Z823, 70008376
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Keypads have no Tamper feature?
I removed each from its mount to read the model and version, and no alarm occurred?

Crikey, my 22 yr old radio shack system would set the alarm off if you removed the keypad cover.

Did I miss something? Is that what the “Z/P” wire is for- the 5th wire connected to it??

Tips appreciated.

I know I am overwhelming y’all with questions
I am trying to break it up into bite size pieces.
One problem at a time.
 
  #17  
Old 06-02-13, 04:53 PM
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DSC1616 Programming fails 05 - NO ckt and EOL resistors- EVERYWHERE?

DCS 1616 Model, v.4.60 per sticker on the board
Two Keypads RFK5501-433 v 1.20 both identical
Wireless Motion Detector WS4904P [FCC ID F5306WS4904], Z823, 70008376
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, let me see if I got this right…

I have 2 wired N.O. switches in the house, from long ago, for PANIC.
Would like to re-use them. Was previously simply tied to the N.O. 24-hr zone.

This system according to the Guide, cannot use just a normally open switch on a zone; it MUST have an EOL resistor… which requires the system to be set for the use of EOLR’s…. which in turn requires ALL zones to have EOLR’s…???

So, then, how does the [still not working right] wireless to Zone 6 device get its EOLR ??
 
  #18  
Old 06-02-13, 08:30 PM
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It's a variation on basic hexadecimal programming display. The LEDs/Digits lit tell you the digit in that particular programming section when you compare them to the chart.

Remember, these manuals are actually written with the expectation that the user has basic electronics knowledge, _and_ a minimum of factory training or tech support access. They are _not_ written with laymen in mind.

The information is all in the manual, you just have to be willing and able to slog through it and get a grasp of the DSC programming syntax.
 
  #19  
Old 06-02-13, 08:36 PM
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My opinion on downloader software: It's really intended for installers who set up multiple similar systems on a regular basis. For the average DIY setting up a single system, the hassle and learning curve of the software on top of the system programming basics is more headache than it's worth.

For the typical DSC system 80-90% of the default settings in the programming don't need to be changed. Learn to use the keypad programming interface, and you will be done, up and running long before you got the software working correctly...
 
  #20  
Old 06-02-13, 08:51 PM
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Mistake #1: you can only have one wireless receiver unless you add a PC5320 module to the system. Having more than one without it will make all wireless devices erratic.

Mistake #2: All systems are essentially custom installations, so cribbing off of another configuration's programming will often lead you astray.

Mistake #3: The keypads (and other modules) have their own programming locations, don't confuse them with the _system_ programming locations.

Communications if for the telephone dialer; it has nothing to do with zone programming. If you are not using a land line, turn the dialer and TLM features off...
 
  #21  
Old 06-02-13, 08:56 PM
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"The information is all in the manual, you just have to be willing and able to slog through it and get a grasp of the DSC programming syntax."

Bullshed.

My college educated son also looked over that chart and neither of us can discern one useful piece of information from it. NOT ONE.

Please explain any one tiny aspect of that chart so I can understand it. Anything. Pick one line, or even one black or open dot. ANYTHING.

Then we'll go over the wireless MD that won't go "closed" [despite having "slogged thru" the manual initially reading, then while programming, LINE BY LINE], the fact that the two manuals [keypad vs system] conflict on what section [202] does, the fact than numerous sections in the keypad manual simply do not exist in my keypad [the keypad that is pictured on the cover of the manual...]. And, now, we have a hardwired zone that the system ignores like it's on bypass... but it's NOT.

At this point I would pay for someone to explain this to me and make it work. I do have a paypal account.
 
  #22  
Old 06-02-13, 09:06 PM
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On the North American models of the the DSC keypads, the built in wall tamper isn't active by default. You have to turn the feature on.. Look at programming location 90 in the wireless instructions that came with the keypad.
 
  #23  
Old 06-02-13, 09:08 PM
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EOLR does not apply to wireless zones.
 
  #24  
Old 06-02-13, 09:09 PM
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Mistake #1: you can only have one wireless receiver unless you add a PC5320 module to the system. Having more than one without it will make all wireless devices erratic.
=============================
Where did I get more than 1 wireless receiver? Are you talking the two keypads? So, now I have to cut down to 1 keypad or change one to non-RFK type w/ no wireless?? Please specify clearly what you mean, like I am a 6-yr old.



Mistake #2: All systems are essentially custom installations, so cribbing off of another configuration's programming will often lead you astray.
=================
Bullshed.
Using the same syntax to change a section, with the exact numbers to suit my system, is exactly how programming from the manual gets done. Or, perhaps I misunderstand you.


Mistake #3: The keypads (and other modules) have their own programming locations, don't confuse them with the _system_ programming locations.
===================
Well, since they keypad manual and the system manual both say that you get to the section by entering
*8 [IC] [202]....
I just don't see how doing that once gets you to the keypad part of [202] and doing it again gets you to the system part of [202]. I would love to hear how the exact same entry gets 2 different results. You have to hold your tongue just right?


Communications if for the telephone dialer; it has nothing to do with zone programming. If you are not using a land line, turn the dialer and TLM features off...
===================
Understood. I am pretty sure that at this time all communications settings are disabled, figuring if we can get the zones working first, THEN we can worry about chatting with the rest of the world.
 
  #25  
Old 06-02-13, 09:18 PM
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"On the North American models of the the DSC keypads, the built in wall tamper isn't active by default. You have to turn the feature on.. Look at programming location 90 in the wireless instructions that came with the keypad."

Nice try.
There is no such section.
Maybe I need the USER'S manual as well as the INSTALLATION manual.... for the KEYPADS?

The factory manual jumps from 074-076-077 [none of which are accessible or work for me] to 080 (PGM Terminal), to [101]-[108] Partition labels, which ALSO is only for the 5500, and not at all for the devilishly named 5501 type keypad.

This appears to be the factory install guide. Used system came to me with a user guide or two, Telguard install guide, and not much else, so this keypad manual and the 68-page Install Guide for the system I found via internet searches.

Typically Home Security Alarm System Monitoring Companies | Alarm Company Comparison and similar.
 
  #26  
Old 06-02-13, 09:27 PM
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OK, a trivial point then.

Let's hear the answer to the real burning question: do I have to make ALL [ok, all EXCEPT wireless] zones use EOL resistors just because ONE zone would like to call open circuit happy and closed circuit cause for alarm?

you know, THIS part of the inquiry:

"This system according to the Guide, cannot use just a normally open switch on a zone; it MUST have an EOL resistor… which requires the system to be set for the use of EOLR’s…. which in turn requires ALL zones to have EOLR’s…???
 
  #27  
Old 06-02-13, 09:28 PM
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LED/Zone numbers displayed:
Nothing lit= data for that segment is 0
LED 1 = data for that segment is 1
LED 2 = data for that segment is 2
LED 3 = Data for that segment is 4
LED 4 = Data for that segment is 8
LED 1 + 2= data for that segment is 3
ETC...
it's a basic binary display with the HEX(adecimal) characters added in to handle numbers up to 15

DSC manuals _are_ notoriously difficult to follow. There's a lot of page flipping involved, and they assume a lot of basic understanding of alarm standards, in general.
 
  #28  
Old 06-03-13, 02:39 AM
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Using NO contact devices requires EOL to be on. DSC doesn't give the option of making individual zones EOL, it's all or nothing.
 
  #29  
Old 06-03-13, 02:49 AM
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Yes, you need the installer info for all of the parts, alarm system are modular: http://www.tbmsecurity.com/Documents/pk5500_eng.pdf
 
  #30  
Old 06-04-13, 07:04 PM
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dsc pc1616 keypad removal - lost programming?

DCS 1616 Model, v.4.60 per sticker on the board
Two Keypads RFK5501-433 v 1.20 both identical
Wireless Motion Detector WS4904P [FCC ID F5306WS4904], Z823, 70008376
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Your system will not work properly with more than one wireless receiver. "

I wish someone had bothered to point that out to me a week ago when I started looking into this. I was careful to show at the top of each post exactly what pertinent components I had in place.

On the chance that the seller provided me a system set up by a dolt, with two RFK5501 keypads when you can in fact use only one....

I removed the rear keypad today after powering down the system.


I also bought an alpha keypad so that I can see some text, based on the reviews seen here on this forum.

PK5500ENG DSC Custom Alpha Keypad with English Function Keys | eBay

Should have that in a day or 3.

Still have no joy on the wireless motion detector....

I am wondering if all the programming is gone with the system power-down? I have no way to tell what any of the data are, since the 5501 keypad tells no tales. Maybe I have to re-enter all the wireless data, attributes, ESN, etc. ??

I did find a MUCH BETTER manual for the WSWS4904P, and another chat site which mentioned to beware for confusng "8" with "B" when reading the ESN.

Oh, and I still have no clear answer on how you need to enter two hex digits in a row- e.g., for 1234BF, do you enter

1234*2*6*

or

1234*26* ???

Tips appreciated.

"RTM" replies you can keep to yourself, as I have been thru all the manuals many times now, and came here for stuff that either just IS NOT in the manual, or I cannot locate it there.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reference material:

RFK 5501-433 vs RFK5500 keypad

“do not get a RFK 5500 keypad if you are thinking of using your existing RFK 5501 keypad. Your system will not work properly with more than one wireless receivers. I would suggest keeping the RFK 5501 and replace your PK 5508 keypad with a PK 5500.
The RFK5501 keypad can display up to 64 zones while the PK 5508 can display only 8 zones.”

“When you replace the 5508 with the 5500 you will get a module supervision trouble. you can reset the module supervision by going into programming and enter section 902 and then enter ## to exit programming. The trouble will reset in a few minutes.

The only other problem that you may have is if you are using the keypad zone on the 5508. You will meed to change the entry in section 020. The first 5500 in the system has to be set as keypad 8 which is the default setting for the 5500 series keypad.”
 
  #31  
Old 06-04-13, 07:14 PM
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dsc pc1616 trouble code - Tamper

DCS 1616 Model, v.4.60 per sticker on the board
Two Keypads RFK5501-433 v 1.20 both identical
Wireless Motion Detector WS4904P [FCC ID F5306WS4904], Z823, 70008376
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I got the trouble code "1" after powerup and clock set. Pressing 1 led to
“1 45”

1.1 was fixed by connecting the battery, duh
1.4 - System Tamper - cannot make it go away.
1.5 - module supervision error - was fixed with a [902] & [903] chat between system and keypad.

How can I get that last one trouble cleared?

Tried “reset” button 2 sec until it beeped.

Tips appreciated.
 
  #32  
Old 06-04-13, 07:30 PM
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Update- bad wireless looks likely

DCS 1616 Model, v.4.60 per sticker on the board
Two Keypads RFK5501-433 v 1.20 both identical
Wireless Motion Detector WS4904P [FCC ID F5306WS4904], Z823, 70008376

Wireless Motion Detector not working
Installed to Zone 6 <== Now Zone 7

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Today I find THIS Application Notes tidbit:

"Note: Do not define wireless zones as [07], [08], [09], [29], or [30]."

Well, that seems kind of like important information to have there. Maybe that should be gone over in the Installer's Guide for the system and/or the RFK5501 keypad...

I just spent all weekend trying to get the MD to work by moving it to Zone 07. Readjusting all the programming data, attributes, making sure the correct wireless settings were in place. REMOVING ONE RFK5501 KEYPAD to avoid doubling on the RF.

I still get only four [not three] light flashed at the keypad, 6 seconds after the MD lights up.

Here is a guy with the EXACT SAME symptoms... ended up being a bad wireless Moton Detector... I cannot keep throwing $100 bills at this system though. Any way to tell if they might replace it under warranty?

Having trouble connective WS4904P Wireless Motion




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reference material:

Application Notes
1.29 Wireless Zones (PC1616/1832/1864 V4.2)
Receivers: RF5108-433, RF5132-433, RFK55XX
Panels: POWER SERIES (PC1616/1832/1864 V4.2)
Overview: The wireless receiver can be used to connect up to 32 wireless detection devices. Each wireless device requires a zone.

Programming wireless zones is eight-step process:
- Connect the wireless receiver to the KEYBUS
- Programming the zone definitions
- Programming the zone attributes
- Programming the zone assignments
- Programming the Zone Serial Numbers
- Disabling the Supervision of Panic Zones (Optional)
- Programming the Wireless Supervisory Window (Optional)
- Performing a Module Placement Test

Program Sections:
Section [001] – [002] Zone Definitions
Section [101] – [132] Zone Attributes
Section [202] – [261] Partition Zone Assignment
Section [804], [01] – [32] Zone Serial Number
Section [804], [82] – [85] Zone Device Supervision (Optional)
Section [804], [81] Wireless Supervisory Window (Optional)
Section [904], [01] – [32] Module Placement Test

Step 1 – Connect the wireless receiver to the KEYBUS
Connect the four KEYBUS terminals of the wireless receiver to the four KEYBUS terminals of the main control panel.
Note: If the receiver is not connected to the KEYBUS the wireless data cannot be programmed.

Step 2 – Program the Zone Definitions
Before wireless zones will operate on the system, they must be defined.
[001] Zones 1 to 16 Definitions
[002] Zones 17 to 32 Definitions
Note: Only the first 32 zones can be programmed as wireless.
Note: Do not define wireless zones as [07], [08], [09], [29], or [30].
If using wireless smoke detectors, program zone definitions [87] or [88].
 
  #33  
Old 06-04-13, 08:00 PM
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That's an instruction to not program wireless zones as zone _type_ 07, 08, 09, 29 or 30. The zone number is not the same thing.

I have compiled the bulk of your posts on this project into a single thread, as scattering multiple threads across the forum was not achieving the desired result.
 
  #34  
Old 06-05-13, 04:38 AM
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I have compiled the bulk of your posts on this project into a single thread, as scattering multiple threads across the forum was not achieving the desired result.
===================
Bummer, I wish you hadn't done that.
It's evidently too much for folks to read and comprehend.
Like the part where I asked about EOL resistors being all or nothing and instead got a trivial reply to wireless zones not needing them.
+++

Like the part where to THIS DAY, a week or two into this project, I cannot get a coherent answer on the question of how exactly to enter a partial-hex ESN:

Let's try again:

for 101AF2... do you enter

101*16*2 Where "*16*" means "hex 'AF' between these asterisks"

or does it have to be

101*1*6*2 with an asterisk on each side of every hex digit?
+++


Also still waiting to hear how it is that the system magically knows, when you enter zone [202] via
*8 [IC] 202,
whether to direct you to the [202] section described in the SYSTEM Installer's Guide or the one in the KEYPAD RFK5501 Installer's Guide- because they are NOT the same settings.... yet the entry sequence to arrive there, as specified in the two factory service manuals, is identical.
+++

I did finally figure out what the LED chart on pg 9 is trying to show, and how to make that appear on the 5501 POS keypad. Turns out the upper half is shown by pressing "9" and observing TWO lights illuminated, indicating the upper half access. It would have been nice to get that in English, a week ago. When I get time I will enter that info for future users' reference.
 
  #35  
Old 06-05-13, 10:11 AM
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System Tamper signal - how to clear???

Have this text keypad on the way:

PK5500ENG DSC Custom Alpha Keypad with English Function Keys | eBay

So, once again,

how can I clear that last pesky trouble code, System Tamper?

Come on, surely SOMEONE has done this before...
 
  #36  
Old 06-05-13, 10:22 AM
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Ron says:
"That's an instruction to not program wireless zones as zone _type_ 07, 08, 09, 29 or 30. The zone number is not the same thing."

Read this again, Ron:

Program Sections:
Section [001] – [002] Zone Definitions <== READ THIS LINE RIGHT HERE
Section [101] – [132] Zone Attributes
....

Step 2 – Program the Zone Definitions
Before wireless zones will operate on the system, they must be defined.
[001] Zones 1 to 16 Definitions <== READ THIS LINE RIGHT HERE
[002] Zones 17 to 32 Definitions
Note: Only the first 32 zones can be programmed as wireless.
Note: Do not define wireless zones as [07], [08], [09], [29], or [30].
If using wireless smoke detectors, program zone definitions [87] or [88].
=========================================================

Now note how it says _ZERO_ ZERO ONE and 002 are for zone definitions
and _ONE_ ZERO ONE and 102 are for ATTRIBUTES.

That is what I was going by, sir.
Perhaps the above author is incorrect and confused.
 
  #37  
Old 06-05-13, 12:57 PM
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e k

From the installation manual page 9; section 3.3.2:

HEX (or hexadecimal) digits are sometimes required. To enter a HEX digit, press the[*] key to begin HEX programming. The Ready light will FLASH. Refer to the chart below and press the number corresponding to the HEX digit required. The Ready light will continue to FLASH. Press[*] again to return to normal decimal programming. The Ready light will turn ON.
Which means that all digits entered until you press * again will be HEX digits.

From the instructions for the keypads at the top of page 4: (http://www.tbmsecurity.com/Documents/pk5500_eng.pdf):
Enter keypad programming by pressing [*][8][Installer’s Code][000].
Once you are in keypad programming, all section entries only apply to the keypad programming sections.


When you entered zone definitions did you enter the following once in programming?:

001 xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx (with xx being the zone type for zones 1 thu 16, in order). The correct zone type for a normal interior motion would be a 05 in the 7th slot for a motion in zone 7.

(Yes, there is a way to jump to a specific slot in a section, but entering all of the slots is simpler and less error prone for novice users)

For the trouble: If you are pressing *2 and getting 1 and pressing 1 again displays a 4, then:
[4] General System Tamper

Tamper input on module(s) open circuit

Short tamper terminal to COM terminal on unused modules connected
to KEYBUS (PC5100, PC5108, PC5200, PC5204, PC5208, PC5320,
PC5400, PC5700).

If you don't have one of these, check to see if option 8 in programming location 016 is turned on. That's the tampers for the keypads. If it's on and the little switch contact piece on the back of the keypad mounting plate isn't in place, then this will also generate a system tamper.

The final, and least pleasant possibility is that an entry may have been accidentally made in one of the locations marked in the programming worksheets as "for future use". Accidental changes in those locations can create this kind of persistent system tamper. The only solution for that is to default and start over.

Once you have programmed the zone type for the zones you will use, then you go to the appropriate attribute programming section for a given zone number and turn on the wireless attribute for any zones that are supposed to be wireless.
 
  #38  
Old 06-05-13, 06:01 PM
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Here is my somewhat improved version of the DSC manual chart:



Save and Print a copy as you wish.

I hope this helps other poor suckers who got stuck with a RFK5501-433 pad.
 
  #39  
Old 06-05-13, 06:13 PM
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Here's proof that they purposely crafted the data display to be cryptic and undecipherable to the untrained:

Instead of using offset-exponent 1,2,3,& 4 to represent respectively
2^0, 2^1, 2^2, and 2^3, then adding them....

they COULD HAVE used the FOUR clock display 7-segment characters to display four hex[adecimal] digits at once, with zeeeeeero "translating" or "chart use" needed... greatly expediting the user's reading process.

I guess all I can say to that is, thank God we are not trying to win WWII with this kind of thinking. Oder, wahrscheinlich kann wir alle Deutsche sprechen, ja?
 

Last edited by Freddy_Z; 06-05-13 at 06:35 PM.
  #40  
Old 06-05-13, 06:23 PM
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Using NO contact devices requires EOL to be on. DSC doesn't give the option of making individual zones EOL, it's all or nothing.
===============
Interesting. If I have to I can certainly add 3 or 4 resistors to the whopping 3 or 4 zone circuits I have. It would be good to learn and would provide "more" security. Not like my site is ever going to have tampering.

That is contrary to what I read in one of the manuals last night. It might take some time to find it again for a reference.

I did manage to buy a few 2.2k and 5.6k resistors, and a 10-ohm for an NO loop [panic buttons]...
 
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