22-4 alarm wire

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  #1  
Old 11-23-14, 07:45 PM
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22-4 alarm wire

I have a Honeywell alarm (pic posted below) and the company installed the control panel in the middle of the house. This is a nightmare in the winter.
I want it moved closer to the door, they will not pull the wire to the door. So I am going to pull the wire and they will come back and move the keypad.

They use 22-4.
I have been offered a 300 foot spool of 24-4 for free. This would save me about 75 dollars on the section of wire needed.

Can I use the 24-4 to go from the main box to the keypad at the door?

Thank you,
 
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  #2  
Old 11-23-14, 07:51 PM
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Good question. How many feet in wire would it be ?

I always use 18-4 on keypads.
 
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Old 11-23-14, 08:29 PM
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The run is about 65 feet long.
 
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Old 11-23-14, 08:38 PM
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I'd say it will work but the manual only suggests 22 Guage and larger.

Is it possible to use their wire and move it to the door? The keypad is pretty easy to take down and move yourself. Might save you the fee if any for them to come out and move it.
 
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Old 11-23-14, 08:47 PM
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Thanks guys, I will buy the 22-4.
The routing they have in place is the shortest possible, their wire would never make it through the floor joists and up at the front door. I don't want to do it myself since I have a service contract (my insurance requires this). They will come out and move the key pad for free, but I have to pull the wire so it is right beside the elements at both ends.

I would be afraid to use the 24 and have them walk away once they get here and see it.
 
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Old 11-23-14, 09:01 PM
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The 24-4 would probably be ok but not rated. This is the same size as cat 5 wire and I have seen that used before. Not sure if the way its twisted makes a difference but before you buy the 22-4 wire, maybe call the company and ask them if you can use the 24-4 wire. You'd be surprised that half or more of the installers probably wouldn't know the difference if you told them. :/
 
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Old 11-24-14, 03:53 PM
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I called the alarm company today, frustrating to say the least.

They said it is the installers discretion to use what wire he feels best

They would not let me speak with an installer or foreman.

PJmax asked about the length of the run. Is there a voltage drop type issue over the length of the run (65 feet) using the smaller wire? PJmax, is that why you run 18-4?
 
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Old 11-24-14, 04:30 PM
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There is voltage / signal loss in the length of the wire. 22-4 is rated to 75 ft. 20 Guage to 100 ft. From the chart I would assume 24-4 to be 50 ft but it is not listed.

If it were me personally and I had the wire for free, I'd use what I had. Worst case is they will tell you to change it once they get there but if it's ran down already, you can easily pull a new wire thru. Make the tech give you some while he's there? Lol.
 
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Old 11-24-14, 05:06 PM
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Yes, there CAN be a voltage drop issue using too small a wire size over a longer distance. I suspect that the main reason why PJ uses only 18-4 is that size is universal and can be used for almost any alarm function including running power to four-wire smoke detectors and motion sensors. Just need one box of cable on the truck.
 
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Old 11-24-14, 06:47 PM
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Using an online voltage drop calculator 24 gage wire at 12 volts over 75 feet of wire providing 100ma of current will provide about 11.6 volts at the keypad. Usually only alpha numeric keypads will require as much as 100 ma and most panels provide between 12.5 to 13.5 volts on the keypad bus. I would say that there's no problem running 24 gage wire in this case. OR .... run two 24 gage four conductors and double up on the wires.
 
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Old 11-24-14, 08:52 PM
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It did cross my mind also to double up the wires. I could just imagine the look on the installer's face if they walked into that like "what the .....??" Ha!!
 
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Old 11-25-14, 06:36 PM
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It shouldn't be a problem. just run the two pairs of 4 wire, strip them at each end and twist like colors together. When they get there just tell them what you did and they'll just connect to the keypad as they normally would.
 
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Old 11-30-14, 08:52 PM
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Thanks guys,
hopefully will get this done this week.
 
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