Home run 4-wire smoke detectors and NX-8

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  #1  
Old 03-18-15, 05:53 AM
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Home run 4-wire smoke detectors and NX-8

I have 3x 4-wire smoke detectors and 2x 4-wire heat detectors home run to an Interlogix NX-8 in North America.

If I home run the detectors back to the NX-8 panel, will I be able to get them to work?

Thanks in advance.
 
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  #2  
Old 03-18-15, 09:54 AM
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Your NX-8 will accept 2 and 4 wire smoke detectors. You wire them in a loop. From the panel to the first one, to the second one, etc. A supervised relay is used to verify power present up to last device. Your panel specifies compatible devices.

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  #3  
Old 03-18-15, 11:39 AM
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Thank you PJMax. It is going to be very difficult to wire my 3 level residence that way. Will it work if I home run them to the panel and connect them all there? Thanks again. Alternately, should I run 2x 4-wires to/from each unit and connect them at the panel?
 
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Old 03-18-15, 11:45 AM
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Also I purchased:

3x UTC GE ELECTRO SIGNAL LAB TS7-4, 4 WIRE SMOKE DETECTOR 12/24VDC UL
2x System Sensor 5600 135 Degree Fixed Temperature Rate-of-Rise, Single-Circuit Mechanical Heat Detector with Plain Housing

I was planning on using them together. Will this be acceptable? I have 1 in kitchen and 1 in boiler room (heat detectors) and 3 smoke detectors.

Thank you for your expertise.
 
  #5  
Old 03-18-15, 12:06 PM
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The reason they are wired in a loop is because the last device in the loop is the end-of-line device. If any device before that is removed the zone will be open.

I have mixed heat and smoke detectors on a detection loop. The only thing I'm not positive on is that the alarm specifies compatible smoke detectors and yours are not on that list.
 
  #6  
Old 03-21-15, 07:14 PM
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Thank you PJmax. Are yours 2-wire or 4-wire? I read elsewhere that 2 runs are best, 1 for smokes and 1 for heats. Is it possible to connect 2 runs? I would prefer to do that if possible.
 
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Old 03-21-15, 07:59 PM
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For commercial apps I'll use a 2w system. The power is carried to the head and the head is addressed to send back a particular code to the panel.


For most of my residential installations I'll either use 4 or 6 wire system.

A 4w system carries 12vdc and the fire zone thru each device. This is the most common house system BUT there is no audible on most of these smoke detectors. So, many times I'll use a smoke detector with a sounder in the base.... a 6w system. The extra 2 wires are for the sounder.

I'll be back with a diagram. You're using the SS 5601P heat detectors ?
 
  #8  
Old 03-23-15, 04:28 PM
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I am not familiar with the NX 8 but the wiring is the same for all burg/fire residential panels. I also don't know how many 2 wire fire zones the NX 8 will allow.

But, the following or some version of it is how I would do it.

See if you can return your 4 wire smoke detectors and exchange them for 2 wire smokes that are listed as approved for the NX 8

Run one 4wire from each device back to the panel.

This way all your splices will be available to you to either join or isolate each detector in your home.

For instance, if you have a 2wire smoke detector in the basement and a heat detector by the furnace, you may want to wire them in series. Attach the red/black wires going to the smoke detector to your chosen zone at the control panel. At the basement smoke detector attach the red/black to one set of the detector terminals and the green/yellow to the other set of detector terminals. Back at the panel, attach the green and yellow wires from the smoke to the red/black wires going to the heat detector. At the heat detector, attach the red/black wires to the detector terminals then attach the green/yellow wires at the heat detector to the other set of the detector terminals. Now, back at the panel, attach the end of line resistor to the green/yellow pair coming from the heat detector. That makes up one zone.

OR

You can daisy chain (as above) as many smoke and heat detectors on each zone as recommended by the panel manufacturer.

This also gives you the future capability of being able to trouble shoot any problems by process of elimination using the splices in the control panel.
 
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Old 03-24-15, 10:53 AM
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Thanks. Pjmax, yes I am using the System Sensor 5601P.

My plan was to run 2x 18/4 fire alarm wires to each smoke/heat detector. Connecting them in series at the panel. Would this work? Do I need a resistor or other device on the end of the line?

Thank you all for your help.
 
  #10  
Old 03-24-15, 02:22 PM
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Yes, it's a supervised circuit, and needs the resistor.
 
  #11  
Old 03-24-15, 07:47 PM
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Keep in mind what PJ max mentioned earlier in this thread about using an End of line RELAY.

With 4 wire smoke detectors, since you are supplying the voltage on one pair of wires and the sensor loop is on the other pair of wires ... both pairs need to be supervised. So ..... you need a relay on the power pair that will drop out when/if power is removed from the smoke detector and you need an End of Line resistor to detect when/if the fire loop sensing pair open. See the supplied diagram.

With 2 wire smoke detectors both power and sensing is done on only 2 wires .... so all you need is an End of Line resistor which supervises both voltage and fire circuit integrity.
 
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Old 03-28-15, 10:45 AM
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Jimiee, thank you so much. I see the models I should be looking for when ordering the relay and the resistor in the circuit diagram pjmax supplied. Thanks for the education Jimiee and Pjmax. Super helpful.
 
  #13  
Old 04-09-15, 09:35 AM
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Hi PJmax

I am wiring the detectors. The heat detectors (SYSTEM SENSOR 5601P) have only 2 screws on each.

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The smoke detectors (UTC GE ELECTRO SIGNAL LAB TS7-4) have 6 screws on each. The instructions indicate 2-wire or 4-wire options.

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Is it possible for me to use these devices together as a 2-wire circuit?

Attached are images of the devices and their wring diagrams. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
  #14  
Old 04-09-15, 03:48 PM
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This brand/model of smokes use a common base design for both 2-wire and 4-wire models (as well as a common instruction pamphlet). Since you have the TS7-4 model you would use the 4 wire detector wiring diagram (these require power, as well as an alarm zone connection)

You can include the heat detectors in the loop, but you simply pass through the 12V power wires through the junction box, and only connect the alarm loop wires to the heat.

If you want the devices to be properly supervised, you do need the end of line relay and resistor on the last device in the loop.

If you were trying to do a 2-wire system, you needed to buy the TS7-2 model.
 
  #15  
Old 04-10-15, 10:46 AM
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Thanks again for your time and talents. I've ordered the EOL Relay.

Could you please review the diagram below. I'm concerned I have the wiring mixed up since screw 3 on the smoke says "ground." I only see 3 screws at the panel allocated to smoke. Do I use one of the zone screws for the 4th wire?

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  #16  
Old 04-10-15, 08:14 PM
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No, the wiring you have diagrammed out would damage your alarm panel.

Red would go to + smoke power
Black goes to common
white to zone input
green to zone common
 
  #17  
Old 04-10-15, 08:36 PM
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Please disregard my previous diagram. Does this one look correct?
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  #18  
Old 04-10-15, 08:41 PM
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Thanks MrRonFL,

Does it matter which wire gets the 3.3k resistor? Green or white?

Thanks again.
 
  #19  
Old 04-10-15, 08:56 PM
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Also, MrRonFL,

Would you mind checking if I have the correct wires going to the smoke detector:

Red in screw 1
Red out screw 2
Black in/out screw 3
White in/out screw 6
Green in/out screw 5

On the Heats:
Green to one screw
White to other screw

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  #20  
Old 04-11-15, 02:34 AM
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The diagram looks good. It doesn't actually matter which leg of the alarm circuit has the resistor, because technically, it's across both. It just needs to be on the last device in the detection loop.
 
  #21  
Old 04-12-15, 06:52 AM
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Do I have to do anything with screw 4? Or, just leave it open?
Also, Aux Power+ on panel? Leave it open too?

Thanks in advance.
 
  #22  
Old 04-12-15, 09:19 AM
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You don't need to use terminal 4 on the smoke. That is for the normally closed contact on the form-C relay in the base.

Aux + on the panel is for powering things like motions and glassbreaks that don't require a power reset.
 
  #23  
Old 04-13-15, 05:41 PM
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Thanks again MrRonFL.

I am also adding a single water detector to my system. I would prefer not to add it into the smoke/heat loop. The water sensor install sheet makes no mention of the need for a relay, only a resistor.

Can I power that off of the Aux+ and connect to, say, Zone 7?
 
  #24  
Old 04-13-15, 07:14 PM
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If the device requires non-resettable power, then Aux+ is the appropriate place to power it from.
 
  #25  
Old 04-21-15, 10:03 PM
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Thanks again, MrRonFL.

Would I need an EOL relay for the water sensor? Here is a copy of the install sheet for the Water Sensor (GRI, model 2500).

Also, is the same resistor I am using on all the other zones (3.3k) correct for the water sensor?

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  #26  
Old 04-22-15, 03:30 AM
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If the water sensor is protecting something critical/important, then I would put an eol relay on it; but otherwise it's not _required_ since it's not a life-safety device.
 
  #27  
Old 04-22-15, 04:35 AM
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Good enough, I will leave as is. Thanks again, MrR,

If possible would you mind confirming this for me: I am to use a 3.3k resistor on every zone, correct? I am not doubling (as far as I understand). just using one device on each zone, with one leg on a common that is shared between 2 zones.

Thanks in advance.
 
  #28  
Old 05-12-15, 09:42 AM
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Red face Thank you for the consise answer to the 4 wire question...

I have looked several times over the past few days to verify my memory on the 4 wire question. There is almost nothing out there to answer how Caddx handles this or even why... Its been a few years since I have done alarm installs and even more than that since I've touched Caddx. I knew you could use the 4 wire.. but I swear I've seen it done without the relay. But now I know why that's a bad idea. When I install this.. I'm going to make a dang Video and upload it to YouTube on how to wire a 4 wire smoke in a Caddx panel properly.. with EOL and EOLR(elay)

There is crap for documentation on Caddx panels online. I remember stumbling through the first time around and finally getting the hang of it.. god help you if you want to go into the secret/reserved sections of the memory areas.. Anyone have any good resources on using the NX586 or NX586E to enable some of those?

Cuddos MrRonFL!!

Thanks,
Trae
 
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