Adding a 4229 to a vista 20p

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  #1  
Old 03-28-15, 11:42 AM
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Adding a 4229 to a vista 20p

Hi!!
I just moved and my new house has a Vista 20p. All the front doors are under 1 zone and back doors on another zone. The same happen with all the windows. I would like to separate all the doors and some of the windows for my control4 system (i have a vista icm already installed).
I got a 4229 zone expander but need help installing it. I been reading a lot trying to understand what to do. Right now theres only 1 resistor on the zone1 wiring (front doors). I have a 6150, the installer code and the programming manual.
I need to install the 4229 and program the zones. I have added sensors on my previous alarm but all of them were wireless.
Where do i start
 
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  #2  
Old 03-28-15, 12:31 PM
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You have the wrong keypad to do zone programming. You need a 6160 or equivalent to program the zones.

I am assuming that your zone wiring was "home run" to the motherboard location so that you can separate the wire pairs for the openings you want to separate.
 
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Old 03-28-15, 01:49 PM
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My wrong, I have a 5160 and a 6160 keypads.
And yes the cables all run to the alarm box and are spliced inside the box. I know I have to separate them.
Thanks for your help!!
 
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Old 03-28-15, 10:13 PM
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Again wrong, 6150 and 6160!!!
 
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Old 09-07-15, 11:27 AM
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I finally installed the 4229. As I have read all zones need resistors.
I have been able to separate the entry doors, but hasnt been able to do the windows.
How do I determine what wire goes to what window. I tried with a continuity tester but couldnt do it. Whats the propper way to do it??
 
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Old 09-07-15, 01:20 PM
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Simple way is to hook each loop to the zone, one at a time, and see which window makes the chime beep when you open it. Then label that loop and try the next.
 
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Old 09-07-15, 02:54 PM
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Thanks!

I must have screwed something else. It seems none on the wires triggers the zone

Keep trying!!!
 
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Old 09-07-15, 08:31 PM
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"...none of the wires triggers the zone."

Which zone? Keep reading, but please answer <--[this question] when you reply.

Which zone were the windows on originally? We know that zone was working, so using that zone (please name it for us so I won't have to keep referring to it as "that zone") to find which window is which will eliminate any possibility that the 4229 wiring or programming or zone programming might be the problem.

Are you trying to test chime on the newly programmed zones of the 4229? If you are, and are meeting a problem, go back to the original zone and find which window is on which cable, and -then- we can work with any possible problems with adding new 4229 zones.

I'm also assuming that you got a chime tones when the windows opened before. That's nearly always the case.
 
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Old 09-08-15, 08:13 AM
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Well, lets start from the beginning, first I changed one of the 6150 for a 6160 to be able add a Vista Icm to integrate to my home automation system. I decided to add a zone expander to be able to separate the zones. I had to try for a while to add it.

Probably I screw something in programming at that time. In zone #4, 3 of the 11 windows stopped triggering the alarm, and zone #5 it stopped working at all (6 windows)

The zone working with right now is #5 but cannot match a wire with a window.

I added zones 9 and 10 to the new separated doors. Those two are working properly. Then I added zones 11,12,13,14,15 to try to identify each separate window of zone 5.
All are programmed 03 1 A0 AW 07

Thanks for your help, and where should I begin to try to fix it ??
 
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Old 09-08-15, 01:22 PM
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Simple test for your programming: Close the loops with _just_ a 2k resistor. If the zone works correctly, they you have a problem in the field wiring.

Simple test for field wiring: For each pair of wires for the individual windows, use a basic continuity test (ohmmeter, test light, etc.) to verify that the contact(s) on that loop are showing closed. If so, make sure each of the new zones has 2000 ohm (red black red for first 3 stripes) resistor in _series_ with one leg of the loop.
 
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Old 09-08-15, 03:20 PM
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As soon as I took the wire from zone #5 and #11 - #15 I got fault messages from the alarm.
Does it help us??

What could make 3 widows of 11 in zone #4 not give a fault?

My zone expander indicates to use 1k reistors, so thats what I had installed.

I will check the wires with the multimeter. Lets see what I find.

Thnaks again !!!!
 
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Old 09-08-15, 08:58 PM
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"What could make 3 widows of 11 in zone #4 not give a fault? "

What kind of switches (aka contacts) are on the windows? If your windows use plunger-type contacts, they are prone to stick in the closed position, i.e., the plunger button/roller/ball won't pop back out when the window/door is opened. Once a plunger-type starts to do that, it needs to be replaced: Even if you unstick it, you can't rely on it anymore.
I'm not fond of plunger switches at all, although there are applications where they are necessary. Unfortunately, I've known some installers to put them everywhere. :-(
Assuming this is the problem, let us know before you go buying new stuff. Some plunger-types can be "modified" to act as straight magnetic switches by removing the plunger assembly in the switch and adding a strong magnet opposite it in the window sash.
 
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Old 09-09-15, 02:45 AM
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Even magnetic contacts can, and do, fail in the stuck closed position, especially on seldom operated windows or doors. You can give the switch side of the contact a sharp rap with something like a screwdriver handle to un-stick it (about half the time). Even if that works, you should replace the contact, because once they do this, they are on borrowed time.
 
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Old 09-09-15, 07:37 PM
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In fact, the 3 of the 11 windows that were not reporting fault were stuck. Nothing a hammer will not fix.
The system uses Flair vip88 sensors. Are those so bad??
All this in a year and a half old home!!!


In the first floor everything is separated and working properly. Now have to work with the second floor. There is a zone with 6 windows that only 1 reports fault. All going to the extender. Those has to be separated and check if they are stuck.

Anything else to check??

Thanks again for your help
 
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Old 09-09-15, 09:23 PM
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As MrRonFL said, if you have to rap them to get them working, they need to be replaced. Their whole purpose is to trip the alarm when someone opens the window while the system is armed. A switch that has stuck shut once is prone to stuck shut again, erratically. You might get it to chime 100 times consecutively, and it still could stick shut the 101st time. To the point, it's flaky and you can't rely on it to work when you need it.

I've never used Flair products, so I can't comment on your switches.
 
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Old 09-10-15, 02:16 AM
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Flair makes perfectly good contacts. What often gets contacts stuck shut is a very close lightning strike. It can induce just enough voltage to fuse the tiny reed switch shut (a common problem here in lighting-prone FL).
 
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Old 09-10-15, 03:49 PM
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Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally done!!!!
Upstairs the 5 non responsive windows were also stuck. My hammer fix them.
In fact, last year, after just 1 month in the new home had some lightning damage. A few $$$ in damaged equipment.

I know its time to replace those that were stuck, and maybe all of them. Any brand in particular to choose for the contacts?? Do I have to open drywall to replace them?? If positive, that's a big project!!!

Thanks again for your help.
 
  #18  
Old 09-10-15, 04:12 PM
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Buy the brand that's on sale that is the same size and shape. They really are pretty much a commodity item. If most of the ones you have are the recessed cylindrical ones, you can generally work them out of their hole with a flat screwdriver or thin putty knife. Hopefully, the original installer left enough slack on the wires to work with.

Just get the models with the screw terminals for the replacements, it's a lot easier than trying to work a splice crimp back into the wall void hole.
 
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