Concord 4 occasional phone failure

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  #1  
Old 04-06-15, 05:16 AM
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Concord 4 occasional phone failure

Hi all,
Had a Concord 4 for years now (DIY install, pre-wired zones from old alarm).

The last couple of months, I will occasionally get a phone failure alarm. This last one was a panel beep at 1:30 am. Previous one was a couple weeks back. Weekly tests usually succeed. Manual test this morning succeeded as well.

Funny thing is, I got a confirmation e-mail at 1:27 saying the test succeeded, the alarm log shows a 1:28 auto test and a 1:30 failure.

Phone has dial tone and gets "cut off" during the test, so the jack seems to be working.

Any idea what might be going on? Any way to get more advanced diagnostic messages?

Also, how to clear the message? It stays on the status "*" even after viewing the logs and a successful phone test.

Thanks,
Anthony
 
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  #2  
Old 04-06-15, 06:23 AM
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Is this self monitored?
How are you getting an email if your alarm is connected through dial up phone? Are you connected through internet as well?
 
  #3  
Old 04-06-15, 06:51 AM
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NextAlarm monitoring. They e-mail every fault and phone test (and alarm) to me.
 
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Old 04-06-15, 09:53 AM
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This sort of thing has been happening more often as more and more Telco providers have converted their lines to packet switched digital lines. There was recently a notice put out that alarm communication data over Comcast lines was prone to failure, for this reason.
 
  #5  
Old 04-06-15, 11:03 AM
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I have Fios and the digital telephone service, so that makes sense. Are you thinking the data just got garbled during the test? And for some reason is just cleaner other times, which is why it succeeds?

Thanks.
 
  #6  
Old 04-06-15, 02:08 PM
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Here's an excerpt from a communication on the subject:

In an article Is AT&T's plan to end landline phone service crazy, or just crazy enough? | The Verge, it states “There are undoubtedly still hundreds of thousands of systems and devices – fax machines, burglar alarms, an so on – that are designed for POTS and don’t play well with IP-based phone adapters like AT&T’s Mobile Premises Services, but it’s unreasonable to keep our ancient copper alive indefinitely to service them.”



We have already experienced this several times as AT&T has converted customers to Uverse without advising them of the effects to analog devices such as security and fire alarm systems. We have already had to do several emergency conversions when those systems have failed due to changing to these new systems.



In a letter from AT&T to the FCC, http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7022008868, AT&T states “Establish a date certain for an official TDM-services sunset, after which no carrier would be required to establish and maintain TDM-based services/networks, and purchasers of such services (including circuit-switched and dedicated transmission services) would have to switch to IP or other packet-based services.” and “to prevent customers that procrastinate or fail to migrate from holding up the transition.” and “permit service providers to notify customers that they will be dropped from service as of a date certain if they have not migrated to an alternative service”. This demonstrates AT&T position in forcing this conversion with no alternative of remaining on POTS service.



Converting to Uverse not only brings the problem of bandwidth and formats to the table, but also the fact of phone company “modems” and other non-fire rated equipment that is now part of the communication path….most of which do not have any battery backup. A recipe for failures.



Here are some other links that also discuss these problems:



POTS Sunset - Washington AlarmWashington Alarm

What the End of the Wired Telephone Network Means for Security System Users

POTS Phase-Out No Cause for Alarm Say Some - Security Sales and Integration

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7022008868

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/at...C-327630A1.pdf

POTS Sunset | Guard Tronic, Inc. Sunset date of POTS

POTS sunset on the horizon? | Security Systems News

AT&T: landline phone service must die; only question is when | Ars Technica

POTS LINES VS IP NETWORKS FOR SECURITY ALARM PANELS

https://www.linkedin.com/groups/PSTN...-Group-6778599

AT&T's Call to Sunset the PSTN - Post - No Jitter

Connected World – Rest In Peace POTS

Is AT&T's plan to end landline phone service crazy, or just crazy enough? | The Verge

Discontinuance Application Of AT&T Services, Inc | FCC.gov

Landline to VoIP: Should we have a “Separate but Equal” Standard for Phone Calls? - The Greenlining Institute

The End of Plain Old Telephones

http://www.att.com/Common/about_us/f...fcc_filing.pdf

Some phone companies seek to end landline service
 
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Old 04-13-15, 04:14 AM
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Well, automated call test went through fine last night.

Checked with Verizon, they claim as long as the phone is working, data devices should be able to function normally. I'll keep watching it.

thanks for the info.

Anthony
 
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Old 04-20-15, 04:48 PM
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new week, same problem.

After working last week, it failed again last night. I started looking into the call logs on my Fios Digital Voice -- it seems the dialer tries about 5 or 6 times and eventually works. The time stamp on my successful notification is usually pretty close to the last time it dialed out.

Last week it had one dial attempt and a successful test message.



Another item to note: I have had Digital voice since before January, but the problem only started late March. The problem also coincided with a series of Tamper alerts I got when I was pulling wires in my attic. Nothing to do with the alarm, but I was walking around up there and got the alert. The zone with the tamper was a hard-wired one. I traced it back to a wire I pulled on accidetnally and when I relieved the strain the alert went away. But the phone problems started at the exact same time.

Weirdness continues.
 
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Old 04-20-15, 05:15 PM
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That is strange. Fios Digital Voice service rarely causes an alarm problem like that. Comcast has major issues and Optimum is not far behind.

We've been installing more and more IP alarm communicators and have not had a single problem with Verizon's internet service where we've had issues again with cable systems.
 
  #10  
Old 04-20-15, 06:24 PM
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The phone sounds fine, no hum or buzz or radio that I can hear.

I just wish I knew what went wrong. Voltage measures 48V where it's supposed to be, it grabs the line fine during a test. Sadly I can't "listen in" during the dial to hear what went wrong. that might be a tell if there's some sort of pop or beep that interrupts the call.
 
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Old 04-21-15, 02:29 AM
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The problem could easily be at some other junction point between you and the alarm receiver. The only way to nail it down, would be to listen in while the system dials to hear what happens.
 
  #12  
Old 04-21-15, 03:54 AM
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking about last night.

This morning I just did another test and it did one dial and a successful update. Weird.

Best I can tell, they did one large loop of telco wiring around the house, some of them don't even cut it, just strip back and on the terminals. i'm not sure where they cut in the X jack, but it is wired right, as it grabs the line. Only two devices on the line -- phone in the basement and the base for the cordless phones.

I can wire the phone in the basement to the alarm side of the telco block and listen in, that should be an easy swap.

something tells me I have a date with the attic to look at junctions, though -- that's all I could have even accidentally affected.

Thanks for chiming in, all.
 
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