995 PIR Replacement

Reply

  #1  
Old 08-24-15, 09:35 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Question 995 PIR Replacement

I have a 995 PIR and 2 997 PIRs wired in the same zone. The 995 is original (18 years old) whereas I've replaced the 2 997s over the years when they stopped "seeing" motion completely - they didn't false alarm, they just stopped doing anything. It appears the 995 has now suffered the same fate and is no longer registering any motion. The previously replaced 997s on the same zone still appropriately report motion.

It looks like the 995 isn't readily available. It's mounted in a standard single gang electrical box (recessed) as it was installed when the home was built. And it just fits up against the trim of the door next to it. So I'm leary of getting a different PIR that may be a larger size. Any suggestions as to whether the 995 is truly no longer available or where I could find it? If 995 is nowhere to be found, any suggestions as replacement? The system is a Vista 20SE.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-24-15, 10:22 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
My only concern with something like the Optex is that they don't appear to be intended to be recessed and more specifically to be fit inside a standard one gang electrical box. The existing 995 is a very snug fit right up against a door trim so if this face plate on the Optex is bigger than the 995 it wouldn't fit.
 
  #3  
Old 08-24-15, 10:59 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Well, only issue there is if it's TOO small then it won't cover the hole in the wall. Because there is an existing single gang electrical box there. So that's a pretty big opening. I think the 995 just covered that box, so something even smaller than the 995 would likely have gaps showing the box.
 
  #4  
Old 08-24-15, 11:26 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 52,706
Received 345 Votes on 323 Posts
My distributor has the 995. It looks like Amazon does too......

amazon/Honeywell-Ademco-995-Recessed-Mount/dp/B003V1DJ9E
 
  #5  
Old 08-24-15, 11:32 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks - I saw the Amazon one you mentioned. It's not sold directly by Amazon, and the other instance of the 995 on Amazon shows it isn't in stock and they don't know when it will be again. That's actually what led me to post here in the first place. I wasn't seeing many mentions of the 995 on the web period, and was thinking maybe Honeywell obsoleted it in favor of newer models. I'm checking with the Amazon supplier for the link you mentioned to see if they can verify they do in fact have it in stock.
 
  #6  
Old 08-24-15, 11:45 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I've now been in touch with the supplier on Amazon behind the link PJmax indicated. And although his electronic feed indicated his supplier had them in stock, when he checked he discovered they in fact did NOT have them. They were backordered at least a month, and possibly more.
 
  #7  
Old 08-24-15, 11:48 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 52,706
Received 345 Votes on 323 Posts
I checked back with my distributor. He has the covers but not the units. There are units that replace the 995 in size.

Honeywell 995 Recessed Mount PIR Motion [Honeywell 995] - $58.95 : Alarm Super Store

Since when did Sears start selling stuff online....
Sears
 
  #8  
Old 08-26-15, 01:39 AM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 921
Received 11 Votes on 11 Posts
I see a couple of NIB 995's on eBay.

I know you didn't ask this, but I would feel remiss if I didn't chime in here: It's actually not that common for a PIR to just stop seeing motion. Three of them failing in the same system is suspicious. I can only think of a four possibilities for that.
(1) A nearby lightning strike that fused the relay contacts in all the loop devices. If that's the case, you'd do well to check all your door and window contacts too.
(2) Larval insects or spiders getting into the PIR housings and spinning webbing across the sensor elements. When you switched out the other PIRs, did you look for anything obscuring the sensor element? Have you looked inside this one? Are the holes sealed where wire goes into the housing?
(3) Your house has shifted slightly over the years and the mounting orientation of the PIRs is now such that it's aimed too high to see movement below, say, 6 feet or so. This sometimes happens when PIRs are mounted properly, i.e., ~7 feet high.
Did you test to see if they were picking up motion when you put your hand right up on them?
(4) You painted the interior of your house and someone painted over the PIR lenses.

There may be other explanations that I haven't thought of, but I consider any of these three more likely than 3 spontaneous PIR failures to see motion in the same system. I know a lot of PIR replacements fix the problem, not because the old PIR was bad, but because mounting the new PIR took care of any insect or alignment problems that -could- have been fixed on the old one.



Another thing you didn't ask for, but I would feel remiss if I didn't mention:
It's not a good idea to have more than one motion sensor on a zone. Your panel may be maxed out for zones, but I would rather have every perimeter sensor in the house on one zone, than have 2 motion sensors on one zone.

The reason is that if you develop a falsing problem in a perimeter zone with multiple contacts, you can generally track down the cause; either by tracing a high resistance or by shaking, rattling, banging, pushing and pulling, or otherwise stressing door and window openings. Sometimes you can just eyeball it and see that the magnet and contact are marginally too far apart or misaligned.

PIRs are a different story altogether. Falsing is usually due to some random transient environmental factor which you can't duplicate by any amount of banging or shaking. Sometimes it's obvious, like a new potted plant waving in an air current; and often it's not obvious, and takes a lot of detective work to figure out. If you're trying to figure out possible causes in three areas instead of one, it can drive you crazy. Especially if the falsing occurs randomly only every week or so. In those cases, you want to be able to pinpoint the problem area on the first false alarm.

Now I realize that since you have the Vista-20SE, you've had it quite a few years now, maybe without any falsing problems--so just file away my words of advice if you want; and be prepared to split that 3-motion zone at the first sign of falsing trouble.
 
  #9  
Old 08-26-15, 07:50 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I really appreciate all of this excellent advise. I'm actually looking at upgrading the Vista20SE to a Vista 20P and I'm planning on adding a 4219 so I can at a minimum split the motion zone into 3 separate zones. I may even add two 4219s so I can get every sensor on it's own zone, including all the doors, windows and glass breaks.

I might actually be mistaken on both of the 997s failing. It's possible only 1 of those failed. And that's over the course of 18 years. So while I'm certainly going to go through all the suggestions you have above regarding cobwebs and such, I wasn't initially shocked when I noticed the 997 was no longer blinking it's red light. After all, I'd already been cautioned that all the smoke detectors in the system should be replaced after about 10 years (and I've already done that once). And to be honest, the 995 unlike the 997 isn't where I normally notice it. It's in a corner about 7 feet off the ground and I almost NEVER look in that direction. So it could have been this way for SOME time now.
 
  #10  
Old 08-26-15, 03:31 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 921
Received 11 Votes on 11 Posts
Most electronic alarm devices, unless they suffer lightning spikes or other abuse, will outlive the user; and perhaps his/her grandchildren if they kept using it.

Current exceptions are keypads and smoke sensors: Keypads, because they have moving parts (the keys) that eventually wear out; and smoke sensors because they depend on flat-black non-reflecting chambers where air passes through. That chamber's surfaces eventually get "contaminated" with minute reflecting particles (fine dust) that look like smoke to the sensor element and cause false alarms.

But in both cases, the eventual failure is mechanical, not electronic. In the case of PIRs, there are no mechanical elements. If they aren't subjected to abuse like high-voltage spikes or careless painters, they can outlast you and me.
 
  #11  
Old 08-26-15, 03:59 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
Posts: 16,176
Received 28 Votes on 27 Posts
Actually the part in the motion detector that eventually fails is the alarm relay. It cycles every time motion is detected, and eventually the tiny switch in the unit mechanically fails. Newer motion have solid state relays, and last longer.

Typically, when I've run into a motion that was a single gang sized flush mount, and have to replace it; I will get one of the cover plates with a single hole in the center for a cable, and mount the new motion on the surface of that plate. It looks neater, and if you want to, you can paint the plate to match the wall.
 
  #12  
Old 08-27-15, 08:54 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 921
Received 11 Votes on 11 Posts
Oops!

You're absolutely right, MrRon. Don't know what I was thinking. I've seen so few relay failures over the years except for hi-V spikes that I forgot the relays are bound to fail some day. But the vast majority of the PIRs in my experience are still working after several decades, so the relays do have a long life expectancy.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: