Smoke & Heat Detectors for DCS PC1832?

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Old 11-29-15, 07:44 PM
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Smoke & Heat Detectors for DCS PC1832?

Hi,

I have a DCS PC1832 with a DSC PC5108 Expander Module (not used yet) and an EnvisaLink 2DS (that communicates to my Vera Lite zwave box). I want to replace my (very) old smoke detectors with new ones that will be hard wired to (and powered by) my DCS PC1832 panel. Each smoke or heat detector will have a home run back to the panel.

I am probably going to buy several "DSC FSA-410BST Wired Photoelectric Smoke Detectors" for the smokes (I am assuming these "BST" ones will work fine?), but does anyone know a good heat detector I can hard wire in (for the kitchen)? I am seeing the Kidde HD135F, but it looks to be 120V. And good 12V heat detectors out there? Carbon monoxide and natural gas detectors too?

Thanks,
Jeff
 
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Old 11-30-15, 02:49 AM
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My preference is for the System Sensor models:

Heat: https://www.systemsensor.com/en-us/Pages/5601P.aspx

CO: https://www.systemsensor.com/en-us/P...Detectors.aspx

If you have your PGM connections available, you might consider going with 2-wire smokes instead of 4-wire. The wiring is much simpler.
 
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Old 11-30-15, 04:56 PM
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So the 5601P can operate work on a range of AC & DC volts? It appears it draws 1AMP at "6 – 28 VDC" (it amazes me the lack of CLEAR basic information on some of these home security devices). That sounds like a lot of power for one device on my panel. Can my PC1832 even power this? Or do I need another power supply?

Will the CO sensor also detect natural gas? [...from my reading it would appear not. And while I see some nice Kiddie "Explosive Gas/Carbon Monoxide" detectors I like none seem to have contacts so they can be wired to a panel! This home security/sensor business seems to be about 20 years behind the times!]

Thanks
Jeff
 

Last edited by JeffNY; 11-30-15 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 12-01-15, 02:33 AM
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Heat detectors are just thermo-mechanical normally open switches. That rating is the volt/current range that the contacts will handle.

Combustible gas detection is specialized. System compatible ones like the Macurco models: Macurco Combustible Gas Detection are made for detecting specific ranges of combustible gasses.

Remember, the manuals/specs for this type of hardware presume a certain minimal level of electrical/electronics knowledge. That's why they don't bother to fill in those sorts of details. These are not consumer-level products... They are getting better, largely because younger generations of technicians have less background base...
 
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Old 12-01-15, 03:04 AM
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You might want to revisit the spec sheet on the 5601P. It contains a lot of "CLEAR basic information". The System Sensor 5601P Heat Detector, being mechanical, draws no current. 1 Amp @ 6–28 VDC is the rating of the electrical contacts.

Why would a carbon monoxide detector detect natural gas? That's almost an apples-to-aardvarks comparison. Natural gas is a complex hydrocarbon fuel, while carbon monoxide is, in general, a byproduct of combustion; usually incomplete combustion. The main component of natural gas is methane CH[SUB]4[/SUB], which is a long way from CO. If you want to detect methane, you should probably be prepared to go with an industrial unit.

"20 years behind the times!" is a pretty cavalier statement. There is a tremendous range of fire and smoke detection products available, but most are too expensive and complex for homes. Specifying, installing and maintaining may require factory training (NOT cheap!). A single device can cost more than the materials and labor for a professionally installed home system.
 
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Old 12-01-15, 11:27 PM
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ThisOldMan,

“You might want to revisit the spec sheet on the 5601P. It contains a lot of "CLEAR basic information".

I can find no “spec sheet” specific to the “5601P”. The “5600 SERIES Mechanical Heat Detectors” spec sheet covers EIGHT different models. Nowhere can I find where it specifically says the 5601P can operate on both AC and DC at a range of voltages. I could ASSUME that, but I always like to ask about something like that to be sure, especially for such a critical device I want to work when it needs to.

“Why would a carbon monoxide detector detect natural gas?”

I don’t know. Hence the question. I see some that detect both. But as you can see from my edit shortly after the question, I answered my own question. So no one else had to. Those of us who don’t do this everyday have questions. That’s how we learn.

“”20 years behind the times!" is a pretty cavalier statement.”

Well, I that’s your opinion. But when you have a number and range of devices that operate on AC and DC, 6 to 250V, or just 120V, or just 12V….and then have devices like "Explosive Gas/Carbon Monoxide" detectors that can’t be wired to a panel then sorry, that’s “behind the times”. I want to know when I have an issue with CO and/or have “explosive gas” in my house - even when I am not home. Especially if it could cause my house to explode. Some little beeper going off in my basement next to my boiler, that no one can hear, because I am away on vacation for a few weeks, does me no good.

The Firex FX1218 Smoke detectors i put in my new house in 1993 were 120V and not (easily) connected to a panel. I am not sure, in some areas, a whole lot has changed. If I, or anyone, wants to add smoke detectors, CO detectors, gas detectors…..why is there not at least ONE common standard for operating voltage and interconnect-ability or communication? I don’t want to have to spend days trying to figure what to buy by reading “spec sheets”! It’s why a lot of people, who should be adding more sensors to their home, DON’T!

This is why Apple can come in and take over whole industries (computers, music players, music and media distribution, cell phones, tablets ….now auto media/navigation/communication and soon home automation) because the competition is lame, complicated and lacking innovation and simplification. I built my first computer (an IMSAI 8080) in 1979 from a kit. Today people don’t read “spec sheets” and buy parts to have a computer. Imagine if we had USB 2-5V, USB 2-12V, USB 3-5V….eeeee. It’s non-sense, it’s 2015, and we are still reading (unclear) “spec sheets” to try and figure out what the voltage is and what smoke or heat detector might work…and if it can even be connected to a monitoring panel…just so we know what to even buy. If this industry would make it easier for people to buy their products they’d probably sell a lot more product and make a lot more money. I stand by my comment; This home security/sensor business seems to be about 20 years behind the times […and so is its' operating and communication protocols].

Jeff
 
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Old 12-02-15, 02:55 AM
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Ok, this has turned into more noise than signal. I am closing this thread.
 
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