Vista 20P Faults Won't Clear

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  #1  
Old 05-20-16, 05:50 PM
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Vista 20P Faults Won't Clear

I've just gotten my Vista 20P panel and 6160 and 6150RF keypads set up and I'm running into a problem. I have all-wireless sensors, mostly consisting of 5816 sensors. Problem now is, the faults won't clear when they have been corrected. The ready light goes off, and the faults continue to be displayed, even after the door or window has been shut. Putting in the keycode + 1 doesn't clear the faults, and the keyboard won't go back into ready mode. I have to reboot to get it to clear.

Any insight on what might be happening here?
 
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  #2  
Old 05-20-16, 07:48 PM
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Do you have correct loop #'s programmed?
 
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Old 05-20-16, 10:10 PM
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Rebooting doesn't clear the problem. It clears the symptom.

EDIT: Duh! I'm not going to delete all this, but skip down to where I say, EDIT: Duh! again.

Assume you have a perfectly working system with wireless sensors. You can have all doors and windows open, and reboot, and all doors and window zones will show Ready to Arm. Then they will all fault during the next hour as they send "Check-in" signals and report they are Open.

When you panel boots up, it assumes any wireless zones are Normal (Ready to Arm) until it receives transmissions from them. Each sensor sends a signal when it Opens (Faults) and when it Closes (Normal). Once it's sent an Open/Fault signal, unless it closes it won't send another signal until Check-in time, which is every hour or so (a little less). At the check-in, it sends its Normal/Open status. Since they were probably all powered up at different times, not many will check in at the same moment.

I recommend you not boot up again until you observe the specific symptoms. Rebooting obscures what is happening and doesn't make your system work. When you came out of Panel Programming and the keypad said "READY TO ARM", that was just the panel's built-in optimism. ALL wireless systems work that way, it's not just Honeywell. The panel doesn't know a zone is open until it hears from it, so it counts it closed by default until informed otherwise.

Is this problem happening with all your zones or some of them? Do they show FAULTED, or CHECK? Are they displaying their trouble all at once or one or two at a time? These are the symptoms that let us know what is happening.


Did you verify that the panel was receiving each sensor as you programmed it, by tripping the sensor and hearing the beeps?
On your door/ window sensors, assuming you used the on-board reed switch, did you program each for Loop 2?
Have you tested the sensors by setting the Chime (CODE + 9) and opening a zone while listening for the Chime?
Let us know what's happening.

EDIT: Duh! I noticed too late that you have another thread with a lot of relevant information. Please, for future reference, add to your old threads instead of starting new ones. Tunnel-vision guys like me are too prone not to notice the prior thread and all its info. Right now the threads are together. I guarantee that in a few days, they'll be separated by new posts.

Okay, to the point. Amazingly, MrRonFL appears to have had a Senior Moment here when he told you to program your 5816s as Loop 1:
5816 Door Window sensors that use the on-board reed switch--i.e., you use the 5816 with a magnet, instead of wiring an exterior contact from the 5816--need to be programmed as Loop 2. Correct that and I suspect your problems will disappear.

BTW, MrRonFL knows WAY more about more alarm systems than I do, but anybody can have an *oops* moment. Normally, if he and I were to give you conflicting advice, I'd recommend going with his.
He did mention that the Loop number was on the device instructions. If you got your 5816s in their boxes, look on the diagram on the box. You'll see the two screw terminals are labeled for Loop 1. Find the Reed Switch on the diagram and you'll see Loop 2.
 

Last edited by ChosunOne; 05-20-16 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 05-21-16, 04:40 AM
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ChosunOne, the window and door sensors were left in place by the previous owner, so I didn't have the documentation (I probably could have found it somewhere online I guess). I'll try changing the loop numbers and respond back with the results. Thanks for the advice!
 
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Old 05-21-16, 07:27 AM
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ChosunOne, I changed the loop numbers to 2 and now the system is working properly. I checked the documentation for the sensors, and there's no mention of the proper loop number in it. Curious. I wish I could find a source to better understand the function of each of the loop numbers. Thanks for the help!
 
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Old 05-21-16, 10:15 AM
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Not sure what documentation you're looking at. Remember, this is professional-grade equipment and not made for DIYers. The manufacturer assumes expertise of the installer. An experienced installer programming a 5816 for the first time would look at the device documentation (in this case, the diagram on the box) and see what loop to set for the reed switch.

If you buy your 5816 sensors from a regular outlet, they come in red-and-white boxes with a diagram on one side. I'm mostly retired now and only do the occasional service call and rare installation, and rarely buy from ADI distributors or online stores, but I trade around enough to have some recent 5816 boxes on hand. Ron so rarely makes an *OOPS*, that I had to double-check the box before I posted. If you bought your 5816's from a source that sent them without their individual boxes, then you were missing the documentation.

Loop 3 isn't mentioned because it's in firmware: It's the "check-in" loop on 5816s, and different on some other devices, too long to get into here.

Loop 1 is the screw terminals for a wired-to-5816 external contact, as we discussed. Loop 2 is the on-board reed switch, activated by magnet next to 5816, as you now know.

Loop 4 isn't mentioned because the (experienced) installer following directions isn't supposed to let it get enrolled; or is supposed to change it to Loop 2 if he does. It's the tamper switch in a 5816, and it is possible to trip it at just the wrong moment during programming and enroll it as a perimeter device, but then the 5816 won't trip for a window opening because Loop 2 wasn't enrolled. As you probably found out.

The loop uses vary with other devices, like the wireless smokes and 5804. The panel seems to be hard-coded to need to see a Loop 3 (check-in), even for a device that's not supervised, like the 5804 keyfob--hence, you always must use Loop 3 when you program any device--which isn't obvious, since it's default setting and hardware in the 5816 and other supervised devices and the installer doesn't (can't) set it.

You won't find most of what I just said in the documentation. It's what we've managed to figure out working with the stuff for years.

Good job on sticking with it. I'm familiar with Ademco/Honeywell by now (after a few decades), but I'm not a stranger to struggling with new equipment with vague instructions.
 

Last edited by ChosunOne; 05-21-16 at 10:33 AM.
  #7  
Old 05-22-16, 11:07 AM
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That's because the transmitter cited in the original thread was a 5820L, which only uses loop 1:

I've reinstalled my Vista 20P panel into my new home, and I'm only using wireless sensors for this installation. I've gone through the setup procedure. The 6150 and 6150RF panels seem to be working properly. I've setup Zone 11 as a single Exit/Entry 1 location using a 5820L sensor.
 
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Old 05-22-16, 01:25 PM
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Ah! That explains that. I thought maybe you'd had a really late night, Ron.

My bad, I didn't read the other thread's OP carefully. After I finally noticed it.
 
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Old 05-22-16, 02:25 PM
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That's ok, I read the post 4 times before I registered which model transmitter he was describing...

As I've remarked before, I love helping out, but sometimes the "20 questions" routine to nail down what's actually happening can make the process longer than it needs to be...
 
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