Two Control Panels Two Monitoring Fees?

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  #1  
Old 04-19-17, 01:52 PM
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Two Control Panels Two Monitoring Fees?

---House is wired with a Safewatch 3000en WA3001-2.5 chip.
---We are building a detached garage.
---I would like the garage and house security systems to operate independently.

An example, I'm in the house doing my thing with the house security off, she comes home to a garage with the security on and it is triggered as she enters. She feels safe, disarms the alarm with a fob and unloads groceries or whatever and then rearms the garage with the fob and enters the house.

To do what I want I'm imagining the easiest solution is just to leave the house security and its monitoring as it is and to add a Honeywell Lyric system to the garage and pay a nominal fee to self-monitor the garage.

I understand I could probably switch out the chip in the house Safewatch 3000 and add a part and have garage wireless sensors communicate with the house control panel and maybe have a keypad in the garage. In this case, though, it's my understanding as they would be the same system I couldn't really operate them independently as I would prefer.

Any thoughts or advice?
Thanks!
 
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  #2  
Old 04-19-17, 04:13 PM
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Could this be part of my answer?

Basically, linking systems on one account just requires that the 2 systems have the same account number and report different Zone Numbers (in other words, your first system uses zones 1-10 and the second uses 11-20 - or something similar anyway.) They do not actually have to be physically wired together. However, since this is a public forum, if they are in separate locations, you need separate account numbers - for authority reporting, etc.
 
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Old 04-19-17, 04:18 PM
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A partitioned system is actually two systems that can be fully independent that happen to share a control (each can have it's own set of codes and zones).

That said, since this is a detached building, it may be simpler and more reliable to give the garage it's own standalone system. While I'm not the biggest fan of all-in-one type systems, something like a Lynx or Lyric would probably fill your bill.
 
  #4  
Old 04-19-17, 05:02 PM
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Thanks MrRon! I very much appreciate your input.
Just to educate myself, can you tell me more about the drawbacks of all-in-one systems? Is the idea that systems that specialize might do a better job rather than a system that's trying to do everything?
 
  #5  
Old 04-19-17, 05:27 PM
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Their main downfall is that the keypad, brain, and siren are all in the same box... Meaning an intruder can simply smash the box before it communicates and defeat the system. They are really pretty worthless when you think about it.

With component systems, the brain can be hidden in a location separate from the keypad - and smashing the keypad or pulling it off the wall and cutting the wires will not prevent the alarm from sounding (in fact it will generate a trouble signal).
 
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Old 04-19-17, 05:58 PM
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Just to address your second post.... two panels equals two account numbers.

A partitioned system uses one common panel to service two distinct areas.
 
  #7  
Old 04-19-17, 07:13 PM
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Ah, PJ thanks for the information!
Taz, yeah smash/crash and grab is no good.
Independent of the monitored security system I have cameras set up emailing snapshots and recording to hidden hard drive with a battery backup. So, I'm likely at least to have something after the fact.
Otherwise I think you're right, the worth may only really be the brief alert I'd get before the brain gets smashed and the smoke alarm monitoring.
 
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Old 04-20-17, 05:47 AM
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Actually, nearly every all-in-one system accounts for the type of break in you've described.

The Honeywell LYNX Touch and Lyric systems employ APL logic - https://www.alarmgrid.com/faq/what-i...tion-logic-apl to make sure an alarm is still generated if the panel is destroyed during the entry delay making them pretty valuable if you think about it.
 
  #9  
Old 04-20-17, 05:41 PM
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APL will only function when an AlarmNet IP and/or cellular communicator is installed, activated and online. APL will not function through the phone line path as the AlarmNet servers need to be involved for the APL logic to get an alarm to the central station. Also, APL does not work if you have a service plan that doesn't include central station service as APL does not report alarms to Total Connect 2.0 service and only sends the alarm from AlarmNet's servers to a central station for dispatch purposes.
So basically unless he shells out extra monthly bucks for central station monitoring for the garage (when he said he wants to self-monitor), it's back to worthless.
 
  #10  
Old 04-21-17, 08:07 AM
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A Safewatch 3000 is probably the same as a Honeywell Vista 20P. And that system can have partitions.

Now you say you have a "2.5 chip", the current Vista 20P chip versions are much higher than that. Like the following v10.23...
Honeywell Vista 20P Panel Version 10.23

Anyway I don't know if an older version like that (and ADT modifications) would have or not have partition capability? Some features were added with later versions. And ADT removed things like zone doubling.

Anyway you can find honeywell vista 20p installation and programming instructions by searching google.com for the following...

pdf vista 20p installation
pdf vista 20p programming
pdf vista 20p user

Honeywell documents...
https://www.security.honeywell.com/h...sta/14958.html

Be aware there are a LOT of differing instruction manuals out there for various versions. Might try to find an older version installation/programming manual.

Another option is to upgrade to a newer board to fit the instructions available. Or perhaps incorporate internet/cell phone or other newer features.
 

Last edited by Bill190; 04-21-17 at 08:39 AM.
  #11  
Old 04-21-17, 09:34 AM
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Yes, I did miss that he planned to do self monitoring so the risk of that type of break in using an all-in-on LYNX Touch/Lyric would certainly be something to consider.

I still would not call them worthless though as simply setting all zones to no delay (using Perimeter Response/Zone Type for motions and door/windows) would effectively eliminate that risk as the panel wouldn't be able to be destroyed before the intruder already triggered the alarm.
 
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Old 04-21-17, 01:18 PM
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You apparently also missed the part where he WANTS an entry delay. It's just another convoluted workaround to a non-existent problem. IMO the best solution would be to partition the system. Then either install a wireless receiver in a position where the garage is in good range, and use wireless sensors and a wireless keypad out there assigned to partition 2... OR, run some 18/8 thermostat cable from the panel to the garage through buried conduit, and he could install a keypad plus up to four hardwired zones.
 
  #13  
Old 04-23-17, 01:23 PM
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If you had central station monitoring, by programing both systems with the same account number, you could have your house alarm system report to central in Contact ID and the garage system report in 4/2 format. Instructing the central station that CID is for the home zones and 4/2 format is for the garage. I've done this dozens of times.

However
I .... (knowing nothing about self monitoring) ..... don't know if using two different reporting formats would make a difference with DIY monitoring.
 
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Old 04-23-17, 01:58 PM
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For "self monitor", unless they are using something like one of the broad band add on cards, all you really get is the fact that the system has called you (unless your mobile phone service emulates a digital pager service, in which case you can get a bit more info).
 
  #15  
Old 05-05-17, 03:00 AM
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Here is good prices for services
https://25pros.com/price/electric_installation/
 
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