DSC1832 powering off on its own

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Old 05-21-17, 04:03 AM
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DSC1832 powering off on its own

Hello, I need help with a dsc 1832 system. Basically one night it just randomly shut off on its own and triggering an alarm & sending a power failure trouble to the central. All keypads and system were dead (no power), only siren sounding on battery power. the system will not power on by disconnecting the battery or ac. It powers back on, on its own after exactly 30 minutes. This problem happends either armed or disarmed.

The alarm company came and changed the panel, 3 keypads and 3 PIR's however the problem has been persisting even after changing the components. to trouble shoot the problem, i disconnected all zones and added one by one every night to see what happens. everything was ok till the natural gas and Smoke detectors zones were connected.

Considering all the major components have been changed (panel, keypads, pir's) can the smoke and NG detectors be causing this weird problem, or can it be the wires?

you guys have any ideas?

Photos are: dead keypad, AC power is on, keypads coming back to life after approx. 30 min.

Thanks!
 
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Last edited by matthewv; 05-21-17 at 04:07 AM. Reason: edit photo
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Old 05-21-17, 10:24 AM
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Those symptoms are generally indicative of a short on the 12V aux power output. The overload protection on one of these is a PTC device that eventually resets itself.

It could be one of the powered field devices that is starting to fail with an internal short (a PIR, keypad, or 4 wire smoke detector can do this) or it may be an intermittent short in the field wiring (anything from a wire pierced by a nail or screw; or crushed by being caught in the building framing; or rodent chew damage.)
 
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Old 05-21-17, 10:41 AM
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Hi thanks for the info. it makes more sence now. Would the PTC fuse happen to have a reset time of 30mins? that's the amount of time it takes for the system to power up again.

i will check the smoke detector and NG to see if its a short or expired.
 
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Old 05-21-17, 11:06 AM
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How long a PTC takes to reset varies by the severity of the short that tripped it. They are a thermal device, and essentially have to cool off. They _can_ fail, in and of themselves and become hyper sensitive (sometimes happens after a near miss with lightning).
 
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Old 05-21-17, 08:10 PM
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I've had similar problems and have to troubleshoot systems. It is not always readily apparent what is causing the short and the short never occurs when you are looking for it.

Since I'm a paid technician the customer wants results !

I carry a handful of fuseholders with alligator clips attached to them. I remove all the device's red wire from the aux power and keypad buss. Then I reconnect with a fuse in line to each device. Usually using 1/2A fuses. When the short occurs.... only that fuse will blow letting me know which device is causing the problem.
 
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Old 05-21-17, 08:32 PM
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That's a good test technique. I usually disconnect all of the aux power loads, and reconnect them one by one to see which is the issue. I think I'll steal the fuse trick...
 
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Old 05-22-17, 04:02 AM
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Hi Pjmax, Thanks for the info.

The power failure or short keeps happening at roughly the same time everyday. how could that be? would internal surges in the home cause this?

lastnight i disconnected the NG detector and still same problem. only zone on the system right now that is suspected to be the problem is the smoke detector. i will disconnect it tonight and see. the system has powered off 3 times this morning.

Also, i noticed they installed 10 zones on an 8 zone panel. 2 door contacts are powered by the key pads. is this normal?
 

Last edited by matthewv; 05-22-17 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 05-22-17, 11:31 AM
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Also, i noticed they installed 10 zones on an 8 zone panel. 2 door contacts are powered by the key pads. is this normal?
Yes.... that is ok.

The keypad is adding those contacts as additional zones thru the keybus. The contacts aren't using any power and shorting them won't cause your problem.
 
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Old 05-22-17, 03:51 PM
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Hmmm, time cyclic?

How old is your battery? Once a day, the system load tests the battery, and a battery with the right kind of failure _could_ shut down the system, like that.

Other than an automatic arming feature, and programmed communicator tests, there's not a lot of other cyclic stuff that would really stress the system.
 
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Old 05-23-17, 06:42 AM
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Hi thanks for the reply,

the battery was changed last week. the fuse reset again this morning at 430am. im going to disconnect the smoke detector later today and see if it happends again over night. I really hope it is that overloading the system because after over a month of this its starting to get annoying.
 
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Old 05-27-17, 02:19 AM
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Just an update. smoke detector was removed and problem still persists. at exactly 4:35am, the system shuts down, and comes back on at 5:07am.

i dont know whats going on at this point.
 
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Old 05-27-17, 02:33 AM
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At this point, we are running out of possibilities, other than a failure in the main control board.

About the only thing that happens on an daily time cycle, like that, is the battery test; assuming that you have not turned on something like automatic arming. It _could_ be a failure in the battery charging/testing section of the alarm control.

The limits of diagnosis by "20 questions"...
 
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Old 05-27-17, 03:41 AM
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Hi thanks for the reply. since my last post, ive figured out what triggers the events. i just finished doing a test and it happend as i suspected.

ive deduced that 5 minutes after my Furnace (heat) goes on, the power on the alarm panel shuts off. i tried it 2 times and it haoppend both times exactly. Now, ive figured out what is the trigger, but why the panel reacts by shutting of is the question. would a power surge in my electrical cause this reaction? or maybe there is a wire somewhere being affected when the heat goes on?

what do you think?
 
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Old 05-29-17, 01:44 PM
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That's _weird_...

It could be that there is enough of a brownout effect from the furnace that it's stressing a component that may be a little borderline. In an ideal would, you could try moving the power plug to an outlet that's on a different phase in your house circuits (the left side of your breaker panel is a different phase than the right side).

You could try plugging the power pack into a decent surge protector. For the experiment, a regular power strip style one would do; but they do make surges specifically for low voltage power packs like this: https://www.diteksurgeprotection.com...rotection.html

You _might_ want to have your electrical/HVAC looked at as well. Generally, that much of transient from an HVAC kicking on/off is an precursor to a more serious problem with that system.
 
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Old 05-29-17, 04:35 PM
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Hi thanks for the reply. i am happy to report that the problem has been fixed. I found short in the red and black wire of the basement PIR. since the bathroom next to the mechanical room is semi finished, i tracked down the wire with the short and lo and behold the wire was tight up against the furnace duct. it gets really hot so must have melted the wire somewhat over the years.

after fixing the short and wire everything works as normal.

thanks again for everyones help!
 
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