Ademco Vista 15 or 20: fire check

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Old 04-02-18, 11:41 AM
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Ademco Vista 15 or 20: fire check

I have Ademco Vista 15 or 20, after I reset the alarm 8 to 10 hours later I get a fire check on my key pad and a 30 second beep all the smokes have a green light they are working fine. Fire is on zone 1 and the central station says it's coming from 1st floor smoke I only have two on that floor.Brand new smokes I just replaced them I was getting check fire before but they needed to be replaced I thought it would go away.. any idea how to fix this?
 
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Old 04-02-18, 11:55 AM
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Welcome to the forums.

Moved you to your own thread here.

If the central station can tell you what floor is giving you trouble..... those would seem to need to be addressable smoke detectors. What new smoke detectors did you install there ?
 
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Old 04-02-18, 12:03 PM
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Thanks Pete they are System Sensor W2-B
 
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Old 04-02-18, 12:06 PM
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How do I find those specific wires for those two smokes on 1st floor?
 
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Old 04-02-18, 03:51 PM
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Check the end of line resistor. it's easy to dislodge the resistor, or even break the wire while putting the head on the base.
 
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Old 04-03-18, 04:39 AM
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so here is an update I have 4 smokes on the 2nd floor and they are on zone 1 and one of those smokes have an end of the line resistor, now the 1st floor smoke there are two are the ones that the central station says are the ones that are the problem they appear to be looped in and are on zone 26 and are wired at the base differently then the ones on the second floor and neither one has a resistor, last night I reset the alarm 7pm and the check fire zone 26 came on 12 hours later ay 7am.
thanks for your help
 
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Old 04-03-18, 08:15 AM
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Zone 26? Are you using a zone expansion board, such as the 4219 or 4229?

Fire zones should only be connected to the main system board and not to an expansion board. Plus your smoke detectors on the first and second floors should be wired together, so if one detector goes off on the first floor the rest of the detectors on the first and second floor will also go off.
 
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Old 04-03-18, 11:15 AM
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Iím not sure if itís a 4219 or 4221 when I test the smokes each one sounds the bells and sirens ?
 
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Old 04-04-18, 02:43 AM
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These are on zone 26, they would have to be 4 wire smokes. 2-wire smokes only work on zone 1.

In any case, there should be a 1000 ohm resistor on the loop.
 
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Old 04-04-18, 10:44 AM
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I think that might be the case bc those two smokes on the 1st floor and that are on Z26 are wired differently then the other four on the 2nd floor, so if they are a 4 wire I don't see any resistor on either one should it be on the base of one of the two smokes? and if so what wires would it go the way they have those two wired is two wires going to each of the positives and the other two wires are wrapped together going to the negative.
 
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Old 04-04-18, 01:39 PM
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Ok, lets try this differently: 2-wire smokes like the 2W-B can _only_ work on zone 1. If you have them on zone 26, they _can_not_work_.

Here's the installation diagram: https://www.systemsensor.com/en-us/D...l_I56-1800.pdf

Look at the markings, the 2 wire bases are actually marked as 2 wire and the 4 wire are marked as such.

The resistors normally go on the bases for this model.
 
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Old 04-04-18, 06:40 PM
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W2-B 4 on 2nd floor
2 on 1st floor
1 in play room


I have all W2-B, 7 in total they all have a 5 second green flashing light, one of the four on the second floor has a resistor.
So what happens is after 10 to 12 hours of resetting the system I get a 30 second beeb from the keypad and it says 26 check fire then 15 seconds later I get a call from the central service and they say that one of the smokes on the first floor has a issue I only have two on the first floor, and those two are wired differently then the ones on the 2nd floor.
Thanks for all your help
 
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Old 04-05-18, 02:39 AM
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I suspect that all of your smokes are on a single circuit (as they should be). It's the zone 26 thing that's confusing matters. Again, if you are using a hardwired expansion board, 2 wire smokes can not work on that zone number.

The monitoring service is reporting only 1st floor smokes, because that is probably the descriptor that they were given for the fire zone.

the way they have those two wired is two wires going to each of the positives and the other two wires are wrapped together going to the negative
This is the description that is throwing me off. how many _pairs_ of wires are in these devices?

If there is 1 wire on positive terminal 1 & 1 wire on positive terminal 2, and 2 wires on the negative terminal, then all is wired correctly, and is how _all_ of the smokes should look, _except_ for the one with the EOL.

Here's a basic test, find your zone expander that zone 26 is landed on, and replace the field wiring with a EOL resistor. If the problem clears when you enter your code + 1, look for which smokes, if any, went dead.
 
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Old 04-05-18, 08:19 AM
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So rechecking all the smokes are wired exactly like you said and the one smoke at the EOL has only two wires.

As far as an expander i'm not sure what the box is above my panel it has two antennas on top and after opening it up there is no place to wire in another zone so maybe it's a RF extender ?

So now I am lost as to finding zone 26 to test it, unless the RF extender is zone 26 ?

The label inside the white box with the antennas says COMMERCIAL SIGNALING DEVICE and then it goes on to say it's suitable for household fire and burglary warning system.
 

Last edited by trizzi; 04-05-18 at 09:03 AM. Reason: adding more info
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Old 04-05-18, 09:06 AM
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I think that I have a Ademco 5881 EN wired in from my panel could that be where I am getting a trouble signal from?

If so should I replace the whole unit ?
 
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Old 04-05-18, 04:09 PM
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The 5881 is the wireless receiver. That means that _somewhere_ in your place you have a zone 26 wireless transmitter device that probably is overdue for a battery replacement. Each wireless transmitter has it's own zone number.

I am guessing that you don't have a zone list for your system?
 
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Old 04-05-18, 06:34 PM
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I do have the zone list they wrote it on the back of the user guide when they installed the alarm it is labeled from zone 1 to zone 24 No 25 or 26
So just to be clear some where in the house I have a transmitter box that needs a battery? And it is definitely not in the panel?

So when the monitoring center calls up and says I have a problem with 1st floor smoke detector it's not really the smokes but a transmitter ? Do you think it might be on the first floor ?
 
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Old 04-05-18, 06:51 PM
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There is another zone list on the inside the panel door that list zone 26 as the 1st floor smokes ?
Why would the keypad say 26 check fire if all my smokes are hardwired

7 Windows are hardwired
1 Door is hardwired
12 windows are wireless
2 Doors are wireless
7 smokes hardwired
2 CO detectors are hardwired
1 CO is hooked up to an outlet but is also hooked up to a transmitter ( I just found this out 2 weeks ago ) I don't think that you should hook it up this way but thats for another day
So thats a run down of what I have here I don't know if that helps or not but I really appreciate all your help.
2 window breaks on first floor they appear to be hardwired
2 heat sensors that are hardwired
 

Last edited by trizzi; 04-05-18 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 04-06-18, 02:27 AM
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They do make a wireless smoke.

It sounds like you aren't the original owner of this system. I wonder if there is a wireless smoke detector that is now missing.

Here's a copy of the installer manual: http://www.alarmhawaii.com/Alarm%20Vista%2015,20.pdf

You can try opening the battery cover on the transmitter connected to the CO detector to see if it's your zone 26 device. Some installers (the smart ones) write the zone number inside the transmitter or the cover.
 
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Old 04-06-18, 10:25 AM
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Ok so you gave me an idea I put the system on test and I opened each window I set off each smoke I pulled the battery out of the CO on the second floor and all the smokes come up on Z1 everything else comes up exactly how they have it written in the user guide that they gave me, not one Z26 came up. I did have it installed and I made a call to alarm company this morning and and asked them if they still had records of what they installed he said that Z26 is the two smokes on 1st floor then I let him know that what they installed was system sensor W2-B on the smokes, and they do not have a battery, so he was very quick to ask me if I wanted a service call. sSo at this point i'm very lost and even wonder if I have a Z26 and maybe the keypads need to be replaced.
 
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Old 04-06-18, 03:43 PM
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No, that's not in the keypads, that would be in the system programming. I'm starting to wonder if they intended to give you wireless smokes, and changed their minds, and went with the hardwired ones, but did the programming based on the original plan...
'
 
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Old 04-06-18, 04:15 PM
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So the system is looking for Z26 and after 8 to 12 hours I get the Z26 fire check bc the system can't find it ?
In your opinion should I try to delete Z26 or just leave it ? I have the installer code i'm not sure how difficult it is.
 
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Old 04-06-18, 09:49 PM
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As long as one of your keypads is a 2-line alpha (6160) it's really easy to delete the zone.
 
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Old 04-08-18, 04:32 AM
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The keypad they gave me is a First-alert it's a non alphanumeric so when I put in the installer code I get the 20 and after I hit I think star 56 I don't see anything? I want to get 6160 but do I need to know the address to install it? and if I get one 6160 can I leave the other two keypads or do they all have to be 6160 ? and would I want to get the 6160RF
 
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Old 04-08-18, 09:46 AM
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I just found out that the keypads that alarm company installed is a FA 215 and I have three of them.
So at this point what would be the best keypad to replace them with ? And should I or do I have to replace all three ?
 
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Old 04-08-18, 10:01 AM
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That model keypad tells me that your system is relatively old (the FA215 dates to around 2000).

What model is your current system? (I'm guessing a FA 142C or FA148C) Most of these older FA versions use the keypads in non-addressable mode.

Since you already have a wireless receiver, you don't need (or want) the RF model keypad. You can install just the one alpha keypad and leave the others in place (power down when swapping connections, or you can damage the keypad, alarm control, or both).
 
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Old 04-08-18, 10:52 AM
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Yes, they gave me very cheap keypads I had the alarm installed in 2007 even in the user guide they gave me doesn't match the keypads, so I can use the 6160 and i'll be ok?
 
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Old 04-08-18, 01:55 PM
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My system is an Ademco Vista 20p
thanks for all your help, I will try and delete Z26 once I hook up the new keypad
 
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Old 04-09-18, 03:00 PM
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Sounds like they installed a Vista 20p on top of an older First alert installation. In that case, you just need to determine the keypad addresses being used by the three existing keypads, and decide which one to swap out. (Press 1 + 3 to view the keypad addresses)

http://www.alarmhow.net/manuals/Firs...on%20Guide.pdf
 
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Old 04-09-18, 06:55 PM
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Yes thats exactly what they did, I have the address already it looks like they used 19. I believe I can swap any of the three ?
When I kill the power to the panel and disconnect the battery I can install the 6160 and at that point I power it back up them input the address of 19 into the keypad and I should be good to go ?
 
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Old 04-09-18, 07:22 PM
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Each keypad has an individual address. The one you checked was 19. Just match the new keypad address to the one you are removing.
 
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Old 04-09-18, 07:34 PM
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Ok got it, many thanks for all your help, I am all set for now.
I will get the 6160 on Wednesday and then I'll look into deleting Z26
Thanks again
 
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Old 04-13-18, 04:03 AM
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Ok so now that I have my 6160 up and running I went into Z26 to see what it says it is.

ZN =26 ZT=09 P=1 RC=10 IN=RF L=1s and then I scrolled on and found this number that I think is maybe a transmitter
INPUT. S/N A040-O542 and then it says L=1

So before I disable or delete could this be a transmitter that needs a battery ?
 
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Old 04-13-18, 10:40 AM
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I figured out that the S/N AO4O-O542 is a transmitter so I opened each one and that number did not match any of them. I'm thinking since I Z26 does not show up when I test each contact and I don't see that S/N number on any of my transmitters, maybe I should disable Z26 and see what happens..
 
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Old 04-13-18, 02:59 PM
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I suspect that you had a wireless smoke that someone removed during a renovation, not knowing what it was. I would delete it. If you stumble across an odd smoke with a lithium battery, later, you can always add it back to the system.
 
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Old 04-13-18, 07:16 PM
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No the only smokes they had in 2000 when we bought the house was battery operated.
Is it possible that when they installed the system the original plan was to put wireless smokes in and programed the keypad that way, only to find out that because of the code in our town they needed to be hardwired and just never deleted the zone from the keypad?
I'm just very confused as to why after I reset the system it always takes 8 to 12 hours to get that fault fire check Z26?
 
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Old 04-13-18, 10:23 PM
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Because that is the length of the RF supervision window. The transmitters don't send constantly, otherwise the battery life would suck, so the system only expects a check in a couple of times per day.
 
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Old 04-14-18, 05:07 AM
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That makes sense. I'm a little nervous to actually disable that zone I did go through all the steps to get to the point where it said disable or delete, I guess I will disable and then test all the contacts to be absolutely sure that in fact Z26 was just added but never installed. The company who installed the system is not to service friendly and just want to make a house call, so they are no help.
I guess at this point now that I have the installer code and the 6160 I am pretty much in control of my alarm and not beholden to the alarm company like they wanted and thats why they installed the FA215 keypad.
 
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Old 04-15-18, 10:18 PM
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So I disabled Z26, and sure enough I got a fault about 10 hours later. This time it just said fault 26,
The fire check went away. The system would not let me clear the fault until I went back in and gave it a zone type.
I was able to rearm the system again after I did that.
 
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Old 04-16-18, 02:17 AM
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I suspect that you disabled the zone without deleting the transmitter. In *56 programming, you have to change the loop number to 0 in order to remove the transmitter from programming (see page 5-5 of the installer manual) http://www.alarmhawaii.com/Alarm%20Vista%2015,20.pdf
 
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