Remove Zone Vista 10se


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Old 06-17-18, 01:56 PM
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Remove Zone Vista 10se

I have a Vista 10se system and would like to remove Zone 12. It is a Motion sensor that has become defective(I have replaced the batteries but I am still getting a Check Zone error when I place the led jumper to On, it only dims slightly and doesn't brighten with motion.) I have tried multiple attempts to fix it without success.

The issue is I only have a 6128 Keypad (fixed) Can someone give me the exact key sequence to disable Zone 12 using this controller? I do have the Master Code and the Installer Code(retrieved using FAQ)? Thank you in advance.
 
  #2  
Old 06-17-18, 03:08 PM
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Without the feedback of the menus, deleting a transmitter serial number is _very_ difficult, even when you are pretty familiar with the programming steps.

You can try it, but the track record for people trying this isn't very good:

Go into programming

*56
0*
xx* (xx being the zone number)
*
00* (set zone type to not used)
1* confirms zone deletion
There should be one more * to accept the final
Now, the tricky part is getting back to summary screen and get back to zone entry where you enter 00* to exit zone programming.

It's that last part that can get you stuck...

Installer manual page 15-8: http://www.alarmhow.net/manuals/Adem...n%20Manual.pdf
 
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Old 06-17-18, 09:49 PM
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I tried it and couldn't exit the programming. So I disconnected the battery and AC and powered it back up. Zone 12 seems to be removed, I am not getting a Check Error Message.

I am going to find a used 6139(or should I find the 6160)?, and a new Motion Detector. I am not sure which one is compatible with the Vista 10se system.

I think the one I have is the 5890PI.

For the programming keyboard, I have two 6128's (One upstairs and one downstairs) I assume one of them is an RF (which would allow the wireless detectors, how would I find out which one to replace? ie. which one is the RF and how can I tell?
 

Last edited by docangle; 06-17-18 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 06-18-18, 02:11 AM
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Either keypad model will work.

Honeywell hasn't fundamentally changed the 5800 series wireless in a long time; so any of their current devices will work:

https://www.security.honeywell.com/h...ess/index.html
 
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Old 06-18-18, 06:54 AM
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I can assume that I can add 5834-4 remote keyfobs to the system(since it is a 5800 series device)? My limited research indicates I can have two in total?
 
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Old 06-18-18, 11:07 AM
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@Docangle
I recently, as of saturday 6/16/18, resolved the issue you are having, deleting a zone with a fixed numerical keypad. As MrRonFL stated its not an easy task but its doable.

The way I completed the task was to go back and put the sensor as a perimiters sensor as I deleted it in my attempt to remedy my check 11. Then I continued to step through as the manual instructed. The hard part is knowing where you are as there are no reference points. To accomplish this, before starting, I wrote everything out on each step in the manual. Then as I stepped through I checked it off. When youre stepping through and youre at the end you should see the next zone number. When you see the next zone number press 0 00* *99.

I tried just powering down when I didnt see the next zone but I had no luck, I had to confirm.
Also, the system would show Ready until the next day..

Hope this helps.. As MrRonFL suggested, the best thing to do is get a 6160, which is what I have done as well.
 
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Old 06-18-18, 12:11 PM
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I ordered a used 6160 on ebay and a replacement motion sensor as well ass two 5833-4 remotes. This system isn't currently being monitored, but plan to add an inexpensive service once I get everything in proper working order.
 
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Old 06-18-18, 03:35 PM
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The remotes should work fine. Just pay attention to your zone count relative to the model receiver you have. Remember each one of those things uses up 4 consecutive zones on the system.
 
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Old 06-19-18, 01:11 PM
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I only have 5 wireless zones setup, and I assume I can have 16 total.

I have an issue that popped up today, one of the wired door sensors are not working. The system is showing the door as closed, even if it is opened. If I use a magnet on the sensor it doesn't register. I assume the sensor went bad or the wiring to the sensor. How does the alarm work with the wired sensor, does it only register when a circuit is closed (normally open) or when a circuit is opened (normally closed).
 
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Old 06-19-18, 02:26 PM
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The little micro switch inside the wired contact can fail in the stuck closed position. They are cheap, and easy to replace. They are just a magnetically actuated switch.
 
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Old 06-19-18, 03:41 PM
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Wired sensors are continuously monitored for open/close status.

You are correct, the problem is almost certainly either a failed sensor or the wiring.

What kind of sensor is it, and where is it? If it's a plunger/roller type sensor (sometimes on the hinge side of the door frame), then it's not unusual for them to get stuck closed.

If it's a magnetic switch, with matching magnet, rap on the contact in/on the door frame and see if that makes the door show as open. You'll still need to replace it if it does. A sticking mag switch is never again reliable.
Sometimes wire splices will touch at the control panel where the wires are connected to the zone terminals. Check the loop wires at the terminals where the zone is connected and make sure no wires are touching where they shouldn't.
Unlikely as it is, take the wire off the positive (high) side of the zone terminals and make sure that opens the zone (makes the door show as open).

Those are all the possible points of failure I can think of before you have to remove the door switch and check the spices, if any, at the switch to see if they're touching. If not, undo/cut one splice to verify that that opens the zone. If it does, then you have a fused-together switch to replace. If not, then you have a short in the wiring somewhere.

EDIT:: Ooops, posted before I knew Ron scooped me. He's a lot more concise then I am.
 
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Old 06-20-18, 07:13 AM
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If I take the wire off the High Side(I actually removed both) on the Controller the Zone is still showing as Closed on the Controller(IE. I can arm the system and I am not getting a Check Zone 1 message) I checked the voltage of Zone 1 and it is showing 12V, If I check Zone 2 and 3 it is showing 3V.
 
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Old 06-20-18, 12:10 PM
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If you have removed the zone loop wires from the Vista-10SE's Zone xx terminals, and the zone still shows closed (Ready to Arm) on your keypad, and the system arms with no problem----that actually sounds like you have a bad Control Panel.

Control panels do go bad, but statistically it's the least common point of failure for these symptoms. I would definitely triple-check that I removed wires from the right terminals.

(1)Which zone is this? And are you certain it's the zone for that door? Are all your other Hardwired zones (Zones 1 through 6) closed during this test?

(2) From which terminals did you remove all wires?
Just to be clear, when I say "all wires", I'm _also_ talking about the End-of-Line Resistor (EOLR) if that Resistor is located in the panel box somewhere. There should be NOTHING attached to the positive side of that zone. The negative side is shared with the adjacent zone, so the negative side will have something attached.

Please answer questions (1) and (2) because I'm reluctant to condemn a control panel without checking everything else.
 
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Old 06-20-18, 12:50 PM
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I am talking about Zone 1, which is Connector 8 and 9. All other Zones are working correctly(I have a Motion on 2, Door Sensor on 3 and 6, and a Fire Alarm on 5. The only Zone I am not using is Zone 4 which has a diode jumpered across Hi and Low.

When I get my 6160 Controller I will try and change the Zone 1 Door sensor to Zone 4 and not use Zone 1. I just thought it was weird it is showing 12V.
 
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Old 06-20-18, 01:09 PM
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12VDC is normal voltage on a zone's terminals if nothing is connected. When a zone is connected with an EOLR, it pulls the voltage down to something usually between 3 to 5 VDC.

The only outstanding possibility that occurs to me is that Z! somehow got reprogrammed to a null zone type (Zone Type 00). Check for that when you get your 6160 KP.

EDIT: BTW, that's probably a 1000-Ohm resistor across Zone 4. Does it have Brown-Red-Brown-Gold color bands on it?
 
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Old 06-20-18, 01:55 PM
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This could have happened when I blindly removed Zone 12 (wireless motion), but I could have sworn it was working after that. Yes, Zone 4 has Brown-Red-Brown-Gold color bands on the Diode.

Also, whoever installed the system put the Diode Resistors on the High Side directly to the Terminal and not the EOL, probably because they are all 3/8" barrel type magnetic sensors.
 
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Old 06-20-18, 04:12 PM
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Those aren't Diodes or Diode-Resistors on the zones. They're just 1K (1,000 Ohms) resistors used as "EOLRs", even though they aren't at the "end of the line."

There's some disagreement among techs in the Alarm Industry whether EOLRs need to be installed at the EOL, the _last_ switch in the zone loop, in home alarm systems. I'm in the faction that considers it almost always superfluous in home systems (as opposed to commercial/ institutional).

I have long suspected that those who insist EOLRs should _always_ go at the end of the loop/line, are techs who haven't spent years having to troubleshoot and/or repair the zone loops: Installers, and managers who didn't come up from Service. Service and Installation are different disciplines. Service techs see the effects of various installation practices years down the road. Troubleshooting zones is much quicker and easier if you have easy access to the EOLRs.

If you want to hear all the pro's and con's, you'll have to ask. Right now I'm resisting getting into a long boring lecture about it.

My personal recommendation is to switch the two ends of your BURGLARY (NOT FIRE) Zone Loops so that the resistors are landed on the negative (low) terminals. That way, if a zone wire rubs through its insulation on a metal plumbing pipe, or a metal heating/cooling duct, the panel will detect the ground fault and alert you to a problem. If that sounds like too much trouble, I wouldn't worry about it. I've seen that happen fewer than half a dozen times in almost 40 years of service calls.

And I would leave the resistors in the box, where they not a royal PIA to work with.
 
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Old 06-22-18, 07:06 AM
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Received the Keypad and I did indeed disable Zone 1(00 for ZT type). Re-enabled and all is good with the system. now I need to find in inexpensive monitoring service.
 
 

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