Getting motion sensor alarms in STAY mode


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Old 11-18-18, 12:00 AM
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Getting motion sensor alarms in STAY mode

I have an alarm system maybe 13 years old, all Honeywell components, originally installed by APEX, then Monitronics took over. I now have Siever's Security, a local Cleveland company doing my monitoring. All the components seem to work well, except for the motion sensor in the hallway, which I believe is a Honeywell Ademco 5890, and centered about 6.5 feet above the floor on the wall. It's just me here, and no pets or anything to set the motion off. It's in a small hallway, and I keep all surrounding doors shut at night or when I go out. I put it in STAY mode at night of course. This last week, while in STAY mode, got woken up twice, 3 days apart, by a "full" alarm with the actual alarm siren in the basement blasting away. Wasn't a tamper alarm where just the panel beeps and alerts the company. I put my code in both times to shut it off, while Sievers calls and confirms motion has triggered it. Again, I'm in STAY mode where this sensor should not be active. Also both times around the same time, 5:30am. I was in bed sleeping behind a closed door, so no way to produce any motion. The same happened once maybe a year ago around the same time in the morning. I replaced the batteries and checked inside for spiders, and found nothing wrong. I'm using cell service on the system to the monitoring company, AT&T 3G, upgraded from their 2G a couple years ago. What can I check out before outright replacing the unit? Thanks.
 
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Old 11-18-18, 11:31 AM
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Are there any heating vents in close proximity to the motion?

Sometimes that sudden blast of hot air when a furnace kicks on produces enough IR signature to fool motions.
 
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Old 11-19-18, 12:39 AM
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No heating vents in the little hallway where the sensor is located, just the surrounding rooms, and I keep the doors closed. Bathroom door always open, but vent there outs out little heat, and senor would prolly go off more often if was the vents? But even if the heating mattered, would it trigger the motion sensor when not armed in STAY mode?
 
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Old 11-19-18, 04:09 PM
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It _shouldn't_. Are you certain that the motion is programmed as zone type 4 (interior follower?

It's not impossible that the device is failing. How recent are the batteries in it? These things can act a little odd on a weak battery (but you should have gotten a low battery indication).
 
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Old 11-19-18, 04:56 PM
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Are there any spider webs behind or anywhere near the detector? A spider walking across the face of the motion "looks" like the proverbial 800 pound gorilla to the motion.
Maybe you have seen the video of a preying mantis viewed by a video doorbell.
 
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Old 11-19-18, 08:00 PM
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Thanks MrRonFL, didn't know about the zone thing, shows up on my panel as zone 11 or something, but then would think would sound the alarm every time in STAY mode, every time I walk past it? But I'll do some research on that/call monitoring co.. Batteries are a year maybe 2 years old, was told they're supposed to last 5+ years. I went thru this a few years ago as well, and took cover off that time, nothing wrong, and was OK till now.
 
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Old 11-19-18, 08:05 PM
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Thanks ThisOldMan, looked and no webs. I have seen bugs land on my outside security cameras, and yep, they look huge. Even if a spider walked across, I had my system in STAY mode every time it went off, I assume still shouldn't trigger it.
 
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Old 11-19-18, 09:49 PM
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There should not be any way that PIR can trip an alarm in STAY Mode, if the PIR's zone
is programmed as an Interior Follower zone (Zone Type 04). An Interior Zone Type 04 _cannot_ initiate an alarm while the system is armed in STAY mode--unless the Control Panel itself has Gone South, in which case, replacing the PIR won't fix the problem.

By the way, just out of curiosity, what model Control Panel do you have?

I'd recommend you check to see that the PIR is actually on the zone (Zone 11?) that you and your monitoring company think it's on. Get everything else buttoned up, press * to show faulted zones, give the PIR 5 minutes of no activity (don't peek around the corner at it, it might still see you), and then have a friend/spouse/child walk in front of the PIR while you watch to see what zone "Faults" on the keypad.

You wouldn't be the first user to have a device misidentified in its zone number. When that happens, the mistake can go undetected for years unless and until it becomes an issue. I've had that experience several times over decades of service experience. It's possible that the alarm is being caused by another device than the PIR.

Monitoring company personnel often call and identify the zone by device only ("Front door" or "hall motion"), without giving the zone number. Call and ask for the ZONE NUMBER of the alarm, and see if that corresponds the zone number you verified for the PIR in question.
 
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Old 11-20-18, 12:28 PM
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Thanks ChosunOne, I have what I believe is either a Honeywell Galant or 6160 panel, closest I can find in Google images that looks like mine, pic attached of mine. The "guts" may be a Vista 20P? I just called the monitoring company and told them I want to try a live fully armed test to make sure it's working as it should in AWAY. Gave full alarm, horn want off, company got the signal, and they told me def. "Zone 11 Hallway Motion Sensor" and was told it was "exit alarm?", and Zone 11 is what shows on the control panel, I hope that's close enough to what you advised me to do, no one here to walk in front while I'm at the control panel, or else will have to get a neighbor to walk in front this weekend and take those extra steps. I asked them to take that sensor offline till I can figure out what's going on and I removed the batteries for now. Clean as a whistle inside, and around it, no cobwebs, spiders, etc. So you're saying this should be on Zone 4, not Zone 11? Zone 11 is also what the false alarm showed and the monitoring co. told me when it went off in STAY as well. Sensor right outside bathroom door as well, and would think the steam from taking a shower would set it off, but nope.
 
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Old 11-20-18, 05:42 PM
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Uh-oh. If you removed the battery from the 5890, then your keypad is going to start beeping and displaying CHECK 11 at you within approximately 12 hours of the removal.
All your wireless sensors are "Supervised"--they send a "check-in" signal every hour or so (a little less actually) and if the Control Panel doesn't hear from one of them, it lets you know it needs to be checked on. I hope you read this post before you go to bed tonight, and put the battery back in the sensor.

Then enter CODE (your 4-digit User Code) + 6 (BYPASS key) + 11 to bypass that zone. The system will ignore any trips from Zone 11 until the next time you Disarm your system.


Your test does seem to confirm that your 5890 is indeed on Zone 11. I think that just leaves two possibilities:
(1) In Panel Programming, either your Zone 11 is programmed as a ZONE TYPE 1, or 2, or 3, ( Perimeter Zone Types)---("Zone Type has nothing to do with zone number--Zone Type is how the Control Panel is programmed to respond to any given zone. Any Zone number can be programmed as any Zone Type; e.g., Zone 1 can be Zone Type 9.)

(2) If Zone 11 is indeed programmed as a Zone Type 4, Interior Follower, as it _should_ be, and IF you're absolutely certain that you armed your system in Stay when you got alarms on Zone 11---then the control panel itself is glitching. That's the Control Panel, not the Keypad. From the zone list I can see on the Keypad's drop-down cover, it looks to me like your Panel is either a Vista-10P, Vista-15P, or Vista-20P). You should be able to look in the steel cabinet housing and find the model number on the inside of the door.

Your Keypad looks like a 6150 to me. Go to eBay and search for both Honeywell 6160 and 6150 keypads. Find the drop-down "Sort" option and select "Price + Shipping Lowest First", because used keypads usually are shown better, with the drop-down covers open and showing the keys. I think you'll see that a 6160 has a wider display screen than your keypad.


Back to your problem, I'm going to repeat:
Unless Zone 11 is programmed to act like a perimeter zone, there IS NO WAY that the 5890 can cause an alarm when the system is Armed in STAY mode. The PIR may or may not have a falsing problem, but it can't circumvent the Control Panel's programming. If everything you've described is accurate, then the problem is in the Control panel--either an electronic glitch, or a programming error.

I would recommend checking the programming for Zone 11 first, before you go changing parts for what might be a simple fix. Unfortunately, you can't do zone programming with a 6150 KP, which I'm pretty sure you have. If you want to do this yourself, you will need a 6160 Keypad.

I see a used one on eBay right now for a $42.15 with shipping, which isn't a bad price. I can't give you a guarantee, but I've had good luck with used keypads from eBay, for my own use.

EDIT: You may get a better price on eBay if you can wait, and bid shrewdly.
 
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Old 11-21-18, 04:24 PM
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Hi ChosunOne, thanks again for replying. The keypad indeed started beeping at about 9am, just a short beep every 30 seconds. It stopped after a while but still displayed "check 11". I just did the code+6+11 bypass, and showed "zone 11 bypassed", and now just "BYPASS". I didn't replace the battery as I don't want a possible can of worms while I'm out tomorrow in case it is the motion. Got it on zone type vs. number now. My CP is a Vista-15PMT. Keypad looks to me now like the 6150, thanks. Will later look up the original papers and see if any mention. And yes indeed was in "Stay" mode for the false alarms, 3 or 4 times.

Replacing the KP would be above my head, I will have to call someone out to look at it, and will print out your recommendations. If too expensive to fix, will prolly just leave it as is with 11 bypassed, as I plan on moving in spring and live with it for now, still have door sensors, glass break, and smoke. I also have outside security cameras around the house and a DVR, as well as indoor IP cameras. I'll look more into this, this weekend or so, again, thanks much for all your help, I assume not much else to do on my end unless can use a 6160 to trace it. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
 
 

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